The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - LotR -- Book 5 - Chapter 03

Fordim Hedgethistle · 07-11-2005, 07:15 AM

herm...it's interesting that in this chapter we see Theoden contemplating his own death and turning to his now presumptive heir while simultaneously we know that Aragorn is off becoming king of his realm. I wonder if there isn't some kind of metaphorical doubling going on here (as is so common with Tolkien). Theoden, the old king, long in the shadows and not 'doing his job' is going to pass into death so that the new king, who has struggled against the darkness for love his master, can assume his place on the throne.

It seems to parallel Aragorn's journey nicely: for too long has he been in the shadows, not showing the world his power, but that person (Strider/Aragorn) is going to pass through death (metaphorically die, even, on the paths of the Dead) and emerge from the womb/tomb as Elessar.

The one most interesting parallel would be between the wizards who have a claim on these two kings: both Theoden and Aragorn come out from under the 'tutelage' of a wizard, 'die', and are then replaced by the 'heir' (Eomer or Elessar) who represents their own unfulfilled potential. What's neat about this is that the process is the same, while the difference is in the nature of the players at the wizard end of the scale: bad wizard leads to the actual death of Theoden, good wizard leads to the metaphorical death of the old self and the birth of a new. Or is this a distinction between material and spiritual, with Saruman as the materialist/technologist extraordinaire leading the the physical/historical transfer of power between old and new king, and Gandalf as the spiritual/divine guide leading to the spiritual transformation of the old self into the new self?

And if this is the case (really extending it now) can we see Aragorn's passage through the Paths of the Dead, as the precursor for Frodo's own tranformation into spiritual state at the end of the story?

Perhaps this is all part of a much larger pattern with different kinds of death/transformation being put alongside: Theoden into Eomer (historical, physical death, affecting society); Aragorn into Elessar (heroic, mythic death of the hero to save society); Frodo into the West (metaphysical, spiritual death of the self to redeem society)?

More coffee needed...

07-11-2005, 07:15 AM	#14
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	herm...it's interesting that in this chapter we see Theoden contemplating his own death and turning to his now presumptive heir while simultaneously we know that Aragorn is off becoming king of his realm. I wonder if there isn't some kind of metaphorical doubling going on here (as is so common with Tolkien). Theoden, the old king, long in the shadows and not 'doing his job' is going to pass into death so that the new king, who has struggled against the darkness for love his master, can assume his place on the throne. It seems to parallel Aragorn's journey nicely: for too long has he been in the shadows, not showing the world his power, but that person (Strider/Aragorn) is going to pass through death (metaphorically die, even, on the paths of the Dead) and emerge from the womb/tomb as Elessar. The one most interesting parallel would be between the wizards who have a claim on these two kings: both Theoden and Aragorn come out from under the 'tutelage' of a wizard, 'die', and are then replaced by the 'heir' (Eomer or Elessar) who represents their own unfulfilled potential. What's neat about this is that the process is the same, while the difference is in the nature of the players at the wizard end of the scale: bad wizard leads to the actual death of Theoden, good wizard leads to the metaphorical death of the old self and the birth of a new. Or is this a distinction between material and spiritual, with Saruman as the materialist/technologist extraordinaire leading the the physical/historical transfer of power between old and new king, and Gandalf as the spiritual/divine guide leading to the spiritual transformation of the old self into the new self? And if this is the case (really extending it now) can we see Aragorn's passage through the Paths of the Dead, as the precursor for Frodo's own tranformation into spiritual state at the end of the story? Perhaps this is all part of a much larger pattern with different kinds of death/transformation being put alongside: Theoden into Eomer (historical, physical death, affecting society); Aragorn into Elessar (heroic, mythic death of the hero to save society); Frodo into the West (metaphysical, spiritual death of the self to redeem society)? More coffee needed... __________________ Scribbling scrabbling.