The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Flaws in Lord of the Rings... Yes in the book.

Kaiserin · 02-03-2004, 09:33 PM

I don't quite see how (I quote) "The whole deus ex machina thing with the eagles at the Black Gate is poorly executed".

To add to what was already posted above: One of the simplest reasons why the eagles could not have just carried the Ringbearer to Mount Doom is plain secrecy. Eagles carrying a dwarf, an elf, a son of Gondor, the heir of Isildur and - especially - a "Baggins of the Shire" would be sure to draw the attention of Sauron. Sauron could have easily discerned what was going on and taken the Ring. Even if they flew with the ring without the fellowship, a flock of eagles flying toward Mordor is too suspicious. Sauron - not even Saruman - would miss that.

More significantly, the eagles were servants of the Valar. Like the Istari, the eagles were only to interfere with the affairs of mortals as the Valar allowed. The concept of the eagles as deus ex machina does not just mean "they come to the rescue" whenever needed.

The people of M-E did not refuse to believe that power could be used for good. It was never implied that power was evil in itself. We see a good, righteous kind of power at work in Imladris and Lorien (that of the latter was so great that it was virtually impenetrable). The One Ring was evil because it was forged with the intention of being used for evil purposes. This particular kind of power could not and never be used for good.

I don't even think it was implied that "absolute power corrupts absolutely". Gollum had the ring in his posession for ages but he did not become "absolutely corrupted".

Sauron was "evil" not just because he was the antagonist. He was evil because he chose to be - he wasn't "born that way", but he chose to go in that direction. He had great power which he decided to use for selfish gain. Remember that he was no mortal man who simply thought of doing something bad. His passion for domination consumed him that one can even say it became him.

Of course, remember that LOTR was supposed to have been written from the viewpoint of hobbits - they would naturally emphasize the Dark Lord's "badness". [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 10:35 PM February 03, 2004: Message edited by: Kaiserin ]

02-03-2004, 09:33 PM	#12
Kaiserin Wight Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cair Paravel Posts: 150	I don't quite see how (I quote) "The whole deus ex machina thing with the eagles at the Black Gate is poorly executed". To add to what was already posted above: One of the simplest reasons why the eagles could not have just carried the Ringbearer to Mount Doom is plain secrecy. Eagles carrying a dwarf, an elf, a son of Gondor, the heir of Isildur and - especially - a "Baggins of the Shire" would be sure to draw the attention of Sauron. Sauron could have easily discerned what was going on and taken the Ring. Even if they flew with the ring without the fellowship, a flock of eagles flying toward Mordor is too suspicious. Sauron - not even Saruman - would miss that. More significantly, the eagles were servants of the Valar. Like the Istari, the eagles were only to interfere with the affairs of mortals as the Valar allowed. The concept of the eagles as deus ex machina does not just mean "they come to the rescue" whenever needed. The people of M-E did not refuse to believe that power could be used for good. It was never implied that power was evil in itself. We see a good, righteous kind of power at work in Imladris and Lorien (that of the latter was so great that it was virtually impenetrable). The One Ring was evil because it was forged with the intention of being used for evil purposes. This particular kind of power could not and never be used for good. I don't even think it was implied that "absolute power corrupts absolutely". Gollum had the ring in his posession for ages but he did not become "absolutely corrupted". Sauron was "evil" not just because he was the antagonist. He was evil because he chose to be - he wasn't "born that way", but he chose to go in that direction. He had great power which he decided to use for selfish gain. Remember that he was no mortal man who simply thought of doing something bad. His passion for domination consumed him that one can even say it became him. Of course, remember that LOTR was supposed to have been written from the viewpoint of hobbits - they would naturally emphasize the Dark Lord's "badness". [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] <font size=1 color=339966>[ 10:35 PM February 03, 2004: Message edited by: Kaiserin ] __________________ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.