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Originally Posted by Inzil
Why should it be any different where Melkor was concerned? The greatest of the Valar, perhaps; but still a creation himself.
Moreover, it feels wrong for Melkor to be a creator. Wouldn't that make him indeed a peer of Ilúvatar, and his lies to Húrin truth?
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I agree that Melkor could not create, only "twist and corrupt" as Tolkien defines what Treebeard's "counterfeit" comment means. And later, Frodo's comment to Sam:
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"The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them;...~The Tower of Cirith Ungol
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I think that's an important point in Melkor's (and later Sauron's) fall. They could not create "real new things" of their own, and they fell into nihilism.
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Originally Posted by Mithadan
The purpose of this thread is not to determine the origin of Orcs. Rather, the intent is to discuss (read as "speculate") why JRRT wavered.
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This is only my opinion, but I think that since Tolkien
did waver on orc origins is telling on its own. He was in a state of constant revision, trying to make each revision more consistent than the previous one. When it comes to the origin of orcs, he altered timelines, altered their origins, to fit whatever version of his story he had at the time. I think the different versions of orc origins show that Tolkien was more than capable of resolving the question. The only (or maybe I should say simplest) solution to the orc question, seems to be if Tolkien just went back to an earlier version; "screw it, Melkor has the power to create."
However, he does not do this. He'd waver and adjust timelines to fit whatever orc origin was most consistent with the revision he was writing. What he does not waver on though is only Iluvatar had the power to create. I suppose someone can argue that Melkor being able to create was a concept Tolkien held at one time, but certainly by the Lord of the Rings he seems to me, firmly set that only Iluvatar had the power of creation.