Quote:
Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin
Although it's not something the Church says much about these days, it would have been known to any medievalist, and especially to a Middle English scholar like Tolkien since it features prominently (and dramatically) in Piers Ploughman.
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Thanks! It's always hard to know what was known, what was obscure, and what postdates the professor anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin
Which then turns to the theory of Aragorn as Christ-figure, specifically as Christ-the-King*: What does Aragorn do but descend into the abode of the accursed Dead, bring them out with him, and by releasing them restore to them the Gift of Men?
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* Frodo (who "dies" on Mt Doom and returns to life**) is Christ-the-sacrificial-lamb or Suffering Servant; Gandalf (who literally dies and returns) is Christ-the-Priest
** In the first draft, Frodo's coma lasted for - wait for it - three days.
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According to the unassailable source
We Three Kings, I think this means Aragorn gets gold, Gandalf gets frankincense, and Frodo is stuck with myrrh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formendacil
Very, very minor side-quibble: Elessar most certainly would not have been buried in his crown because: a.) he wasn't buried and b.) Eldarion would worn the crown.
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I... should have known that. -_- Thank you!
So this means it's
definitely Sauron, right? ^_^ ^_^ ^_^
All this got me curious about what Europe was like 6000 years ago - whichever specific date we pick, the Third Age ending ca. 4000 BC is pure Tolkien. As is traditional, I scribbled together a map:
The prehistoric coastlines - back when Doggerland joined Britain to the mainland, ice filled the North Sea, and Corsica and Sardinia were one island - actually match up pretty well with Middle-earth, provided you ignore western France and Iberia (perhaps Aragorn had his dwarf buddies dig out the eastern Med and build them?). The similarity of the Italian-French coast with the Middle-earth map surprised me, as did the fact that the Irish coast and mountains fit Lindon perfectly. Of course, the Misty Mountains wound up on the course of the Rhine, but we can't have everything.
Anyway, some of the cultural locations of the era:
-Sauron's dominions match up nicely with the
Chalcolithic - Copper Age - cultures. Makes sense, as he was the one pushing technological advancement.
-Rhun was inhabited by
the Cucuteni-Trypillia culture, which is noted for periodically burning down all its settlements. Sounds like a Sauron thing!
-Khand is where the Varna Necropolis lies; it seems to have been built by horse-riding peoples migrating from the east. Sauron's Easterlings on the move.
-Everything west of the Sauronian era was busy building menhirs and megaliths. This really took off around 4000BC itself, so possibly it's a post-Third Age phenomenon. Or maybe the ones in Britain and Brittany were actually the lintels of Hobbit-holes?
-Sardinia, somewhere around Umbar,
was under the Bonu Ighinu culture. They buried their dead in natural cavities, so this may be the Gondorian culture after the end of the Age.
-Rohan was under the
Lengyel culture, which built defensive ditches around its settlements. Look, prehistory isn't all that detailed...
-Going back a couple of thousand years, the Neolithic appears to have hit Europe in two waves: one coming from the sea in the West, and one coming up the Danube in the East. Arnor and Gondor, anyone?
-Around a thousand years before the fall of Barad-Dur, the mosaic of cultures in Italy - ie, Gondor south of the White Mountains - are quite suddenly unified. Sounds to me like the Stewards needed to impose some unity on their new kingdom.
Obviously Tolkien didn't know any of this - much of it wasn't known at all in his day - but it's nice to see that things
sort of line up.
hS