View Single Post
Old 02-01-2006, 12:48 PM   #19
Nogrod
Flame of the Ainulindalë
 
Nogrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves
Posts: 9,308
Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via MSN to Nogrod
First of all, I must agree with Bethberry's comment: fine discussion - and I'm being so frustrated to see this only this evening! Would like to comment on everything, but for the convenience of other reader's eyes, just spotting some comments of Lalwendë

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalwendë
It is interesting that even though traditional Western religions have declined and society has become much more secular (I'm thinking of the UK as opposed to the US which seems to be quite the opposite), that there has been enormous growth in 'personal' spiritual exploration. It is now entirely acceptable to make use of astrology, tarot, crystal healing, numerology etc in everyday life as spiritual 'tools'. Even I can remember when such things were considered 'weird' and I'm only in my 30s. Even the Sunday morning BBC 'God Spot' is occupied by a thoroughly ecumenical magazine show exploring faith and spirituality from all angles. I don't think its mere coincidence that interest in Tolkien, fantasy and sci-fi has grown alongside this more personal focus on belief; people might be secular but they still seem to need something meaningful beyond everyday life.
I share Lalwendë's suspicions about this grand story of secularization. It was a story built up by the enlightenment, and it did have great visions: reason against prejudice, truth against magic, progress against conservatism etc. You know this.

And in some sense, this secularization did go on for a long time, the 80's or 90's being the peak, I could guess. But after that, we have had a turn of the tide, a backlash of sorts. At least here in Finland, where I live and teach in senior secondary high school, teaching f.ex. those students that do not belong to church (all the church members' have a mandatory subject in school: religion, I'll have the rest as my pupils).

But into the point. Even as more people are taking leave from the church, the rise of all these new-age "religions", the Wicca-communities etc. have made their mark in western societes, tearing down official church's stature even more. As from a sort of common zeitgeist, people have propably turned to be even more religious, or at least more openly craving for "spiritual" levels in their lives, than the story of secularization would like to admit. The newly emerged fanship of Tolkien could be counted as a part of it (Hollywood wouldn't make films for zero-audiences: they know the bussiness).

Has this something to do with protestantism (or is protestantism a sequel to this overall developement of individualism)? Martin Luther banged his theses at the door of his church in 16th century to show, that he believed in God, but not in a way, that his church teached one should believe. Last year's study here in Finland revealed, that something like 60% or more of lutherans' (83% of the populace)were thinking the same way: I do believe, but in my own way, not the church's way...


Quote:
Sometimes I wonder if some of the dismissal of Tolkien by the Arts establishment in the UK is due to his huge fan base in the more 'techie' community. We have to be honest and admit that there is still an image problem with regard to Tolkien in that his fans are viewed as nerdy and into computers and gadgets (as I am, and I have to say, if being into computers and gadgets makes me a nerd then so be it...). Certainly here, there is a pretty big divide between Arts and Sciences. Arts people are 'cool' while Science people are 'geeks'. Yet there is little difference in actual 'grey matter'. I have in the past found this pretty frustrating as I like a lot of 'cool' Arts stuff, yet Tolkien is seemingly always on the mental checklist of 'uncool' things.
At least here in Finland, Tolkien's image-problem has been quite clear in the academics'. He's no modernist, to be sure: so the professors' will not like him. And either could he be labelled post-modernist or deconstructionist: so the cool assistants and lectureres' won't talk of him! He is just out of the canon of "high literature".

Well, post-modernism quite died at the last decade, and there has been quite a many burials of modernism already... Still Tolkien is not taken seriously at the arts departments. These Hollywood filmatisations sure did a great job to enforce these banners! So in this regard - with respect to universities - I sadly have to disagree with Lalwendë: the popular success of LotR films kind of closed the doors just as they might have been being opened a bit...

So I don't see this as a arts vs. science -people problem, but as a more general academic problem of fighting out the canon. But the time of Tolkien is coming.

The thing I am afraid of, is that Tolkien could easily be a part of a new nationalistic-mythologic-irrationalistic-spiritualistic-individualistic-emotivistic-racistic etc. -trend, with Lönnrot's Kalevala, and the nazi mythologies (two of the trends mentioned here, there sure are more of these) as well. It would not be the way he would have wanted, but is a way most propable, where his name is drawn upon on days to come. Hope I'm wrong, for I still love his work.
__________________
Upon the hearth the fire is red
Beneath the roof there is a bed;
But not yet weary are our feet...
Nogrod is offline   Reply With Quote