Thread: Is Eru God?
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Old 02-03-2006, 05:12 AM   #263
Guinevere
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elu Ancalime:
So to answer the poll, I say No, because I say the Valar (namely Manwe) are the true Lords of Arda,
In addition to Raynor's arguments from the HoME, some quotes from the letters of JRR Tolkien, about Eru and the Valar:

Quote:
from letter #153:
The immediate "authorities" are the Valar (the Powers): the "gods". But they are only created spirits - of high angelic order we should say, with their attendant lesser angels - reverend, therefore, but not worshipful.*
*There are thus no temples or "churches" or fanes in this "world" among "good" peoples. They had little or no "religion" in the sense of worship. For help they may call on a Vala (as Elbereth), as a Catholic might on a Saint, though no doubt knowing in theory as well as he that the power of the Vala was limited and derivative . But this is a "primitive age": and these folk may be said to view the Valar as children view their parents or immediate adult superiors, and though they know they are subjects of the King he does not live in their country nor have there any dwelling. I do not think Hobbits practised any form of worship or prayer (unless through exceptional contact with Elves). The Númenóreans (and others of that branch of humanity , that fought against Morgoth, even if they elected to remain in Middle-earth and did not go to Númenor: such as the Rohirrim) were pure monotheists. But there was no temple in Númenor (until Sauron introduced the cult of Morgoth). The top of the Mountain, the Meneltarma or Pillar of Heaven, was dedicated to Eru, the One, and there at any time privately, and at certain times publicly, God was invoked, praised, and adored: an imitation of the Valar and the Mountain of Aman. But Númenor fell and was destroyed and the Mountain engulfed, and there was no substitute.
Among the exiles, remnants of the Faithful who had not adopted the false religion nor taken part in the rebellion, religion as divine worship (though perhaps not as philosophy and metaphysics) seems to have played a small part; though a glimpse of it is caught in Faramir's remark on "grace at meat".
Quote:
from letter #181 :
It is, I should say, a monotheistic but "sub-creational" mythology. There is no embodiment of the One, of God, who indeed remains remote, outside the World, and only directly accessible to the Valar or Rulers. These take the place of the "gods", but are created spirits, or those of the primary creation who by their own will have entered into the world.
But the One retains all ultimate authority, and reserves the right to intrude the finger of God into the story
I find the comparison of the people of ME calling on the Valar as the Catholics call to the Saints, very interesting! Many Saints have retained the qualities of older, pagan deities, as they replaced them.

As littlemanpoet wrote:
Quote:
Tolkien created his myth to predate the old testament; thus, it is no surprise that it presents an even more limited view of the creator. This does not lessen who the creator really is, only the knowledge of the creator amongst his creatures.
Quote:
originally posted by Child of the 7th age

But why restrict God to these particular points in history? Is he not the same God, even when he is described from another point of view? More precisely Tolkien describes God from the point of view of those individuals who lived before the covenant with Avram or before the gift of the Messiah. What changes is not God but the point of view from which he is seen and understood.
Exactly. If we believe that God has created the world, he was there from the beginning - before the existance of Christianity and even Judaism. And even then, people expressed some "truth" in their myths.
Tolkien managed to merge in his works the ancient truths he found in legends and myths with his Christian faith and I find the result very convincing!
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