[Boromir88]

There is a lot of things I'm finding I want to comment on in this chapter. Where oh where should I begin?

The previous posts in this thread discussed a lot about Frodo's motivations, and will, for accepting the Ring. Some have even said he's selfish, judgmental and cowardly. I sympathize the most with Frodo's choices in this chapter, if anything it's Gandalf who comes off as a manipulator and not flawless and not the "goody two shoes mentor," as Lommy puts it.

Not only because of his threats to get info out of Gollum, but also he's got a bit of a temper. The previous chapter we are hinted that the wizard isn't as kindly and gentle as he seems:

That was Gandalf's mark, of course and the old man was Gandalf the Wizard, whose fame in the Shire was due mainly to his skill with fires, smokes, and lights. His real business was far more difficult and dangerous, but the Shire-folk knew nothing about it.

Now in The Shadow of the Past, he basically scares Frodo into leaving The Shire and taking the Ring. When I read it this time, Gandalf is rather rude to Frodo, he doesn't sound understanding of Frodo's frustration and peril that has been forced upon him.

'It is not,' said Frodo. 'Though I am not sure that I understand you. But how have you learned all this about the Ring, and about Gollum? Do you really know it all, or are you just guessing still?'

Gandalf looked at Frodo, and his eyes glinted. 'I knew much and I have learned much,' he answered. 'But I am not going to give an account of all my doings to you. The history of Elendil and Isildur and the One Ring is known to all the Wise. Your ring is shown to be that One Ring by the fire-writing alone, apart from any other evidence.'

'And when did you discover that?' asked Frodo, interrupting.
'Just now in this room, of course,' answered the wizard sharply.

The italics are Tolkien's influence and I really think Gandalf comes off in a bad tone, it's belittling and rude. Reading between the lines it comes off as Gandalf saying "I don't have to explain myself to you (Frodo)" and "I know more than what I'm telling you, but I'm going to tell you only what I think is necessary for you to know." Then he gets cross with Frodo for being scared of taking the only choice that Gandalf pushes Frodo into making. Manipulative much?

Also, this isn't the only time Gandalf casually mentions a threat of fire to get information out of someone:

'"Butterbur they call him," thought I. "If this delay was his fault, I will melt all the butter in him. I will roast the old fool over a slow fire." He expected no less, and when he saw my face he fell down flat and began to melt on the spot.'

'What did you do to him?' cried Frodo in alarm. 'He was really very kind to us and did all that he could.'

Gandalf laughed. 'Don't be afraid!' he said. 'I did not bite, and I only barked very little. So overjoyed was I by the news that I got out of him, when he stopped quaking, that I embraced the old fellow...'~The Council of Elrond

Whether Gandalf would ever torture someone to get information he wants, is not the point. It's the fact he has apparently no problems making people think he will roast them if they don't. After Bilbo's 2nd disappearance from the Shire, Gandalf's reputation plummets. He's no longer a kind old wizard who serves as a main party entertainment. He's a "nuisance and a disturber of the peace."

"Some people are actually accusing me of spiriting Bilbo away, or worse. If you want to know, there is supposed to be a plot between you and me to get hold of his wealth."~A Long-expected Party

But in the meantime, the general opinion in the neighbourhood was that Bilbo, who had always been rather cracked, had at last gone quite mad, and had run off into the Blue. There he had undoubtedly fallen into a pool or a river and come to a tragic, but hardly an untimely, end. The blame was mostly laid on Gandalf.~The Shadow of the Past

I think it's great character building that even though the town gossip is absurd and not what actually happened, there is a grain of truth to every rumor. It's important we see this darker, manipulative Gandalf. Ironically what happens at the end of this chapter is basically what Gandalf was accused of doing at the end of the previous chapter. It goes to show why Gandalf would be a most terrible and frightening Ring-bearer. He has no second-guessing of letting people think he will roast them for information. He all but tells Frodo he has the power to break his mind:

Gandalf laughed grimly. 'You see? Already you too, Frodo, cannot easily let it go, nor will to damage it. And I could not "make" you - except by force, which would break your mind...'

It's Gandalf's restraint and rejection of using that power which is his redemption. Although, it's certainly frightening that he uses the threat of his power to intimidate others to get the results and answers he wants. Yep, I definitely sympathize with Frodo in this chapter.