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Old 08-06-2002, 03:21 PM   #26
O'Boile
Wight
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 117
O'Boile has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Maybe its time for a 13th reading. For pure fighting ability, Tulkas is the strongest Valar. Meklor may have been greater overall, but not in a one on one fight. Unfortunately, Tulkas could not do much else.
Second, I don't see why we can't include Balrogs. So they are not regular Maiar? So what. This just in: Neither was Gandalf. In fact, he was in an incarnate form which, according to the thread you refered me to, so were the balrogs. Anyway, its irrelavent. The point was to show that several elves fought balrogs with the same result that Gandalf had when he did. Thus there strength in battle is probably similar. Maybe that is too abstact?
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Of course he did! Melkor started out as the most powerful Ainur, or did you forget that? He possessed a share in the workings and gifts of all of his bretheren. He does lose some of his potency during the creation of his forces, which is why he does grow weaker over time, good job on that part. However, he started out as the mightiest, which means he has much more power to be able to lose before he eventually equalled the other Valar. Hopefully my idea has been expressed fully enough, although I have a great fear that I will have to elaborate on this further.
I'm afraid you will, since you were the one saying he was weak. This quote seems to have you contradicting yourself.

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Sauron, as well as his master, were not physically strong in any way, shape, or form. They used guile and deceit to entrap their enemies (the rings of power). Sauron, ages before, was defeated by Huan no matter what type of physical form he took. Melkor too had his foot cleaved off by Fingolfin. Both were not physically strong, but mentally cunning and treacherous.
Do you see the difference in these statements?

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quote:
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"Saruon fights against 5 people, not 2. Gil-Galad, Elrond, Cirdan, Elendil and Isildur."
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Really? I bet you found that in The Silmarillion?
Actually, in the Fellowship of the Ring. Elrond says it.

To sum it up, if they were not strong, then who, in your opinion, was? Long story short, Gandalf was not as strong individually (physicaly or mentaly) as Sauron during the War of the Ring. Although if you factor in wisdom, then they may have been equal.
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