[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I don't think you could describe Old Man Willow as lower than the Huorns, I see him as more powerful, but I think the right word to use would be "different". You seem to work with the idea that that "awakening of trees" go by a very specifick pattern, I see no reason for that and I do think the ents are important in this matter. I belive that the entish presence in Fangorn incourages a sertain type of development for trees that are wakening up, but not controling it. This awakening is probably also happening in the Old Forrest, but the trees have no ents to learn fro and so creates their own type of society, whith Old Man Willow as the maestro.

Well I never meant the "lower" thing in any other sense than as "lower" on the line from a tree towards an Ent, as I outlined it (with 5km/h the walking trees etc.). Of course the views may be many and the movement away from "just a tree" can be made in several ways - a tree may start to "think" differently, or have other powers... and in any case, I don't think the presence of Ents themselves has anything to do with the process of the awakening. Quite the opposite, when you read the whole part in the book from which I quoted above, Treebeard emphasises among other things the task of the "tree-herders" as controlling these awakened trees, especially those with "bad hearts", i.e. simply the Ents are responsible for the trees in all aspects, and the awakening seems more like something that is not quite welcome, mainly because of the possibility of its ill effects when a "bad" tree (like Old Man Willow?) awakens. So the problem is opposite: in the Old Forest, there is none (except Bombadil) to watch over the awakened trees, no tree-herders, and that may be a part of the reason why Old Forest is as tainted by Old Man Willow's will as it is. And actually, Treebeard implies (although I am rather convinced that here he does not really know anything and is talking with the Hobbits about something he doesn't know) that the awakening of the Old Forest has something to do with the lingering evil of Morgoth - that's somewhat far-fetched assumption, I think; but anyway, what I said before, I believe, should apply in any case.

Anyways, Legate's theory of the development latter leaves us with a question: When does trees gain awareness (or thoughts if you may)

I think the only information we can gather about that is what Treebeard tells the Hobbits.