[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by TheAzn

Hey Puddlglum. The problem with this argument is that it creates more problems. If the Mordorians can reach the inside of the White City from the trenches, then the Gondorians - contrary to Professor Tolkien's description- should have had no problem tearing down the the workings of the trenches from the beginning. No matter how bad the Gondorian artilleries were, the Mordorians should not have outranged the Gondorians due to the sheer height advantage of the Gondorians.

I'm not sure the math works out quite like your picture suggests. In an optimal trajectory the angle of the projectile will be at about 45 degrees so an elevation of 700 feet (even assuming the Citadel wall was manned by catapults - which Tolkien never wrote) would give an extra 700 foot range (plus or minus) - that's less that 2/10 of a mile. All Sauron has to do is move his catapults back a couple of city blocks.

And note that the 1000 foot elevation is only from the top of the White Tower - where Denethor had his special viewing chamber with the Palantier - definitiely not big enough for a large number of catapults.

Look at it this way.

1. Denethor has catapults - but how big does he have them built. Maybe he should have built ones big enough to lob big rocks 10 miles - but he clearly didn't.
2. Sauron, planning his assault, has excellent spying ability with *HIS* Palantir and so can easily know what size catapults Denethor *does* have.
3. Sauron then builds larger catapults, capable of throwing 1000 feet further than Denethor's.
4. By the time Sauron starts his attack, it's too late for Denethor to build new and larger catapults.
5. Sauron just sets down out of range of Denethor's 'pults and lets loose.

Also, remember that Sauron's catapults did not need to be able to hurl large Truck-sized rocks. Just human heads and other shot that was incendiary.

He had no plan to try and batter down the walls - that was only in the Peter Jackson adaptation, not in the books. Lighter shot requires a smaller catapult to be hurled large distances.

Thus, for example, Sauron could observe Denethor had catapults capable of hurling 1-ton boulders, say, 1 mile - and counter by building catapults capable of hurling 10-pound shells & heads 1.2 or 1.3 miles. And, because of the weight differential, his would be far more portable. Then he sets up his trenches 1.2 miles from the wall (1 mile plus the added range from a 700 foot elevation difference) and starts lobbing.

Also, note that Sauron had no need to try and shoot catapults in the citadel. He was trying to start fires and sow despair. His targets are in the lower city.