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Originally Posted by Groin

If Thingol was really smart when it came to Beren and Luthien he would have just sayed no.

Do you really think Beren and Luthien would've taken no for an answer? In any case, no was what he said too. He did not make a serious suggestion that in order to win his bride Beren would have to fetch him the Silmaril he lusted after. He might as well have said, 'go fetch me the moon and you can marry Luthien', for "not all the power of the Noldor, before the siege was broken, had availed even to see from afar the shining jewels of Fëanor. For they were set in the Iron Crown, and treasured in Angband above all wealth; and Balrogs were about them, and countless swords, and strong bars, and unassailable walls, and the dark majesty of Morgoth"

It was, in other words, a task impossible beyond hope.

Now I´m not saying Thingol acted in an exemplary way but, as Galin pointed out, he was quite understandably wroth because of Beren´s prideful words and his, to Thingol, shocking intentions with Luthien, his beloved daughter. Beren the Man was not even allowed to enter the Hidden Kingdom, possibly because Thingol deemed it unwise for the two peoples to mix (which turned out to be true), and for one with such short lifespan and scant wisdom to marry his daughter was out of the question.

You forget that it was Luthien that wanted to come with him. He didn't drag her anywhere, Beren was the one who begged her to go back at first but concented when he saw how strong her love was for him. And in Beren's defence, how would it look if Beren had run off with Luthien? He would have been considered a coward and a scoundrel for running of with the King of Doraith's daughter and would have no doubt been hunted to the ends of the earth by Thingol.

But once Beren realised that Luthien was coming along with him no matter what, don't you think it was a tad irresponsible taking her to the very court of Morgoth, from where she was not likely to ever return; and the Dark Lord apparently had intentions with her that went beyond slaying or imprisoning her. Would it not have been wiser, and less selfish and stubborn, to forsake the quest altogether and live with Luthien in the woods as she suggested, or simply accept Thingol's no? Perhaps he would soften in time (after all, which father can resist a pouting daughter, determined to have her way).

Originally Posted by Groin

Actually Thingol wasn't that great a king with keeping his people safe, skip spence. It was all Melian's doing with her enchanted girdle that kept Doraith from destruction.

Like I said, Melian's aid can't really be held against him. Does a leader have to do everything himself to be considered great? He also had capable wardens such as Beleg and Mablung, doing a lot to keep Doriath safe. Did that make Thingol less great?

Originally Posted by Beanamir of Gondor

My only argument: in my mind, Thingol is just as far below Melian as Beren is below Luthien. Beren is described as the greatest Man who ever walked in Middlearth, and Thingol as the greatest Elf, save perhaps Feanor

I do not fail to see the irony here. Yet there are differences too. Thingol did not go to Manwe's throne on Taniquetil to proclaim that no power in the world could keep him from the treasure he desired.

Originally Posted by Beanamir of Gondor

I honestly can't remember the first point at which Thingol learns about the Oath of Feanor and the Kinslaying. Because if he knew about that oath, why on earth would he have had Beren go after the Silmaril? The Silm specifically states that when he pronounced Beren's mission, Thingol "wrought the doom of Doriath, and was ensnared in the curse of Mandos." And his possession of the Silmaril, later on (which killed him), when he certainly knows about the oath, just seems petty and greedy, to me.

I can't remember just when he learned the full truth about the oath, but as I explained above, that's irrelevant really. Thingol had no way of knowing, save by Melian's foresight possibly, that the Oath could have anything to do with his dismissal of Beren. He had no intention of selling his daughter for a Silmaril, as there was no fear or hope that Beren could ever obtain one in his mind. If he got killed trying seemed to have mattered little to him though.

As for his later refusal to give up the Silmaril to the Fëanorians, I agree that he probably should have done so. Yet, the Silmaril had this power over the owner, and if Thingol is to be blamed for this, so should Luthien, Beren, Dior and even Eönwe Herald of Manwe, who also possessed the Silmaril (or two) and yet refused to hand them over to the sons of Fëanor. Can't you understand old Greycloak's reluctance to hand over the Jewel that Luthien and Beren (whom he now loved) won to the cost of so much suffering, hand it over to the haughty and uncompromising murderers of his kin? I certainly can.

And yes, the possession of the Silmaril led to his death, but don't forget, he was murdered in cold blood by the Dwarves which he certainly did not deserve although this part of the story is shady since JRRT never rewrote it to come in accordance to the later legendarium, as Galin explained in his very informative post. CT had to fill out the blanks himself.