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Shade of Carn Dûm
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Re: Frodo or the Ring?
It appears I may have to fold, since my theory du-jour seems to inspire only disinterest and exasperation in equal measures. A few points, though, since I can't resist:
I am generally in agreement with you, Mith, when it comes to wacky theories about X actually being Y. I would never have dreamed of advancing a Gandalf=Manwë theory on my own if the prof hadn't floated it first. <blockquote>
Quote:<hr> And why would he hide Gandalf's "real" identity at the end or in his voluminous papers which became HoME?<hr></blockquote>I have two answers to this question.
The first is that prof seemed to take great delight in not revealing all of his secrets. In my estimation, this is one of the reasons why the books remain so absorbing and interesting. More than just holding things back, JRRT didn't even shy away from allowing disinformation to pass uncorrected. For instance, it's widely believed in the Tolkien community that trolls are "corruptions" or "mockeries" of Ents. However, in one of his Letters, Tolkien suggests that this is not true, but only Treebeard's (uninformed) opinion. In the same paragraph, JRRT mentions that even though he, the author, knows who the wizards are and where they came from, he has seen fit not to share the information explicitly with his readers. I think this is
exactly the kind of thing he would always want to leave shrouded in mystery.
The second answer is, who says he didn't give some clues as to Gandalf's identity?
JRRT suggests the theory that Gandalf is Manwë.
JRRT suggests that Olórin may be just an "incognito" used by Manwë.
JRRT suggests that Gandalf "wove the web" that led to Sauron's eventual downfall.
JRRT does
not unequivocally dispute that these theories may be true.
As far as I can discern, both the essay on the Istari (where this outlandish theory is first proposed) and
The Quest of Erebor, which deeply hints that Gandalf "wove the web", were written prior to publication of RotK. This would seem to dispel arguments that such issues were addressed as a reaction to reader curiosity.
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Quote:<hr> Surely Saruman would have noticed if a previously unknown Maia abruptly appeared as an Istari.<hr></blockquote>Conversely, if Olórin was known to Curumo, then isn't it odd that he should be surprised to learn after some years in Middle-earth that Olórin had the greater power?
The Valar sent the Istari with the consent of Eru. It is presumed that they were all Maiar -- however, this sentence:<blockquote>
Quote:<hr> For with the consent of Eru, they [the Valar] sent
members of their own high order, but clad in bodies as of Men...<hr></blockquote>...doesn't rule out the possibility that some of the Istari were Vala. In fact, the account you mention of the choosing of the Istari seems to be one of the least reliable texts in that section of UT -- a hand written note that is summarized by CT, complete (or rather, incomplete) with portions which were indecipherable and "illegible". <blockquote>
Quote:<hr> MJ thinks of himself as bad....<hr></blockquote>MJ is bad. He's a bad, bad boy.
And with that I'll fold up my tent and patiently wait for the next interesting thread... (Unless somebody wants to add a reaction that I can't resist responding to!)
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