[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

FYI, "history" here goes as "hist'ry". Alternatively, if this was not intentional, "What should we care if history damns our final fate". Or, "What should we care if history condemns our fate".

In the original though, I think they're saying they don't care how they will be perceived in history.

Another by the way - whenever I point out differences from the original, it's not always to change your version. Like this one works fine the way it is, the difference is just an FYI.

Thank you. ^_^ In this case, history was meant to be three syllables, so I'll drop 'final'.

I wanted something closer to the original, but couldn't find the rhyme; 'fate' was the best I could do.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Is this meant to start with "Why"? Also, U-sur-ping.

Yep, thank you. I think the slightly weird emphasis works with the song structure.

Are the two 'damn you' lines meant to be 'I'm really angry you did this', or a literal 'curse you'? Either would work, I think.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

The rhyming scheme should be [near-A]BAAB. So the last line should rhyme with "wind".

But speaking of the wind line, ideally (but again not strictly necessary) it would have another downbeat at the end. And an offbeat before "doom": "sad doom? a doom? his doom?" I vote for "sad doom". It fits for Melian too. But as for reattempting the rhyming scheme

...

I quite like starting the lines with "Doom", it's got a nice feel to it. But if we can't do that, how about some linguistic games?

I feel the earth begin to ring
And on the wind a whispered treason
Fell doom has fallen on the King
Fell doom has fallen on the King
The artist of his own destruction

So is that 'Что' in the Russian a relative pronoun 'who'?

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

On to Melian's lines, again consolidated here:

Your throne will crumble into ash
At the fulfillment of the Curse
Doom has fallen on the king
Doom has fallen on the king
Under the hand of his own kinsfolk!*

* Which, by the way, Melian, you are not quite correct about, but we forgive you this slight inaccuracy because of your otherwise awesome tongue lashing and because it sounds so good.

I think "curse" and "kinsfolk" are close enough, but they would fit better in the second line got that extra offbeat again: "At the fulfillment of the great Curse"?

Alternatively, the second line can be reworked for both rhyme and rhythm simultaneously: "It's shadowed by the Curse's thick cloak"?

Does that 'ash' need to rhyme with 'king' again? 'Ruin' would work but has an extra syllable. Hmm...

Your throne will soon be tumbling
Enshrouded in the Curse's black cloak
Fell doom has fallen on the King
Fell doom has fallen on the King
Under the hand of his own kinsfolk!

Where 'tumbling' is a three-syllable word.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

The last point about Melian is that her final O My King is different in V1 and V2. V2 goes for "how vain you are", but V1 (and the full text on Lora's site) quote her third version, "what have you done". I think "what madness you have done" makes more sense here, and I'm honestly not sure why V2 went with the vanity. At this point, when Thingol it clutching his head in remorse, it doesn't make sense for her to say how prideful he's become.

Swapped. I agree.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Moving on to the Feanorian backdrop!
... uhh, awesome hateful Feanorians! Sometimes I am not sure who they are supposed to address their lines to. When they backdrop Thingol, they say "you'll die standing before the Glack Gates", so presumably that sworn enemy is Finrod. But when they backdrop Melian, they reference Thingol's throne falling, so they are talking to Thingol. And honestly both would be sworn enemies because both laid claim to the Silmarils and eventually everyone in M-E is their enemy. *Palpatine voice* Good!... Let the hate flow through you!...

I assumed they just hate everyone. ^_~ I actually figured the throne falling was aimed at Finrod again. Melian's just doing what her daughter does to Sauron: taking their words and turning them to her own ends.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Aha! I just proved a hypothesis.

See, I tend to pronounce it be-OR in Russian, but BE-or in English (this happens with most names TBH; the musical tries to pronounce "proper Elvish", but f.ex. in Russian I more naturally read fin-ROD and thin-GOL). In your stanza, the emphasis falls as be-OR (the Russian way for me). Which lead me to think that our English pronunciations differ.

Sorry for the tangent, back to the topic.

Well, Bëor is a Taliska word anyway, so for all we know it's supposed to be 'Bah-ee-or-ae'. But yeah, a Sindarin speaker would stress the first syllable. But it's so good for shouting the other way: "Be-OR!"

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

2 or 1 syllable would fit cleanly without overlap. Ummm... Loathing? Discord? Discord is too tame, and knowing Saeros probably not an alien concept for Luthien.

How about:

What is "hatred" and "fear"?

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

But then "The air of the forest" is out of place grammatically. Either both have to be in noun-format, or in verb-format.

Um. Okay:

To dance in the forest
To taste rowan-berries bright

Which is very Luthien, and has overtones of 'we just party all the time, it sucks'.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

EDIT: what? no crosspost this time? :P

I'm trying! ^_~

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Actually, the original "brown" fits just as well. "Yellow" follows all the syllables that Luthien sings, but now that I know the tune better "brown" scans just as well, the extra syllable isn't necessary.

"Till" might be a little more comfortable here, less burden on the speech apparatus with the rapid syllables.

Accepted.

The Consolidated Version (can I say "English Libretto"? I think the term is broadly accurate) should be up to date now; I'm going fishing for an image to accompany Hatred.

hS