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Old 12-12-2004, 10:12 AM   #15
Aiwendil
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Regarding the Dragon-helm:

I think that ultimately I agree that it can be worked into the later portions of the Narn - but I don't think that this is quite as easy a matter as Maedhros suggests. To me it feels wrong simply not to mention it during the rescue from the Orcs and then to have it suddenly reappear, without explanation, in Nargothrond.

Findegil wrote:
Quote:
Christopher Tolkien does in his note suggest that the Helm must be rescued from the Orcs but is that really the case? The fight on Amon Rudh was a surprise attack. It would be quiet possible to simply add a line that when Beleg left in search of Túrin that he toke the Helm that Túrin had not worne in that battle and that the orcs had left behind.
I once thought this too, but there is a note from the Narn material buried in the commentary on GA:

Quote:
Beleg searching the Orc-camp [in Taur-nu-Fuin] finds the dragon-helm - or was it set on Turin's head in mockery by the Orcs that tormented him? Thus it was borne away to Nargothrond; but Turin would not wear it again, lest it reveal him, until the Battle of Dalath Dirnen.
So the story clearly must be that the Dragon-helm went north with the Orcs. This note does actually seem to provide a potential way to deal with the text at that point, though.

The fate of the Dragon-helm after Turin's death is another issue. In the Narn it is said that when Gurthang broke, all Turin's possessions had passed away. But if the Dragon-helm is still around that clearly isn't true.

But the bigger problem by far is the second one - I still don't see any way to have the helm given to Hurin without significant invention.

Quote:
I am not sure if we should really use RD-EX-11.5 but I think it is needed in view of what we said about Húrins knowledge of Amon Rudh.
Despite my general reluctance to use text straight from QS77, I think that this line does work well and is perhaps needed in view of Hurin's knowledge.

Quote:
§15: If we all desire to hold these line it would be shame not to find a way to do so.
A nice idea. I like RD-EX-13.5. Perhaps for §15 itself:

Quote:
§15 (§286) {Yet} At first Thingol would not take the hoard{, and long he bore with Húrin}; but now {Húrin scorned him,} RD-EX-18 <TT{Then} were {Úrin}[Húrin]'s words more than {Tinwelint}[Thingol] could endure . . .
With "Yet . . ." the text here seems to contradict itself.

RD-EX-07.5:
The addition looks good to me, and if I'd been paying attention I would have been bothered by it's absence in the first place.
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