[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

And here it is! Well, mostly. Listening now, I think I would change a couple details, but that's details.

This is lovely. And the intro length is right for me to fade in Nargothrond in two stages (arches, then backdrop), which means I don't have to figure out anything else to add.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Well, if Beren's goal is "get a Silmaril", while Turin's is "do what is in your power to fight Morgoth", yes, they have different goals - and Turin's comes across as the more noble one. But I digress.

That's not a goal. Beren's is specific: get into Angband, get one or more Silmarilli, get out and return to Doriath. You can plan that; it has an endgame. Even if you'd accurately stated Turin's intent, it would be open-ended, and thus - like the Leaguer - doomed to ultimate failure. It contains neither a 'defeat Morgoth' goal, nor an endpoint where you can return to stability.

... but it's also not what he wanted. The Children of Hurin describes it like this:

"Now Turin had no liking for the manner of fighting of the Elves of Nargothrond, of ambush and stealth and secret arrow, and he urged that it be abandoned, and that they should use their strength to attack the servants of the Enemy, to open battle and pursuit."

Nargothrond was already fighting - Turin just didn't like how. The debate with Gwindor goes on for a couple of pages, in which Gwindor advances a plan - "Only in secrecy lies hope of survival, until the Valar come" - while Turin says that secrecy doesn't work, that "victory is victory, however small, nor is its worth only from what follows from it", and that "though Morgoth slay the doer he cannot make [a great deed] not to have been. Even the Lords of the West will honour it..."

Turin disagrees with Nargothrond's current plan, but the alternative he offers is "fight lots and die gloriously". At no point in the debate does he suggest his plan will produce any outcome other than the destruction of Nargothrond - just that it will be a praiseworthy fight.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I think both are within the realm of possibility. Finrod is a master of whatever "magic" rules illusions - he's the one who almost beat a Maia with a Song of Power. And at one point in the Script I think they implied he moved real walls by "persuading" the stone to be such (the language was similar to how in Nargothrond they "convinced" the armour to darken). Which, all in all, I don't think is the most unbelievable thing in this story. Finrod is very much of a mind-over-matter person, in more ways than one, and if anyone can figure out how to move walls with his thought it would be him.

I think that's based on Luthien singing down Tol-in-Gaurhoth; it establishes that magic can move walls (into rubble), and why wouldn't you use that for construction as well...?

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

She's absolutely a petulant child, and has been the entire play. I found that jarring, but dismissed it in the style of the thing - I mean, Beren can have his Snark and Finrod can have his, what - Spunk? - but obviously the rest have been sillified beyond what's expected. I mean, even in the canonical acts, many of the scenes were made more comedic or silly at the expense of some characters, but it's hard not to admit that the Valar are Comedy Valar. I've accepted Olorin in this taste too (and yes, his name is confirmed at the very end of Part 2), as all the details are technically right and it's the comic relief feature that bothers me. I guess your more in-story explanation also makes sense though, she being a somewhat spoilt princess.

To quote many elves across the length and breadth of Arda - it's both. ^_~ The Script deliberately removes the 'legend' veneer of the Silm and the Lay, but takes it beyond what the characters were "actually like" and into the realm of comedy. But, y'know... the subtle character distortions are still better than what the Zong does to Thingol.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Actually, that one stood out as more normal to me. I never really thought about it, but I sort of expected Gandalf to have learned warfare and fighting from Eruhini at some point, dunno if before or after his arrival to ME. Though I didn't think he'd be learning from dead Eruhini.

I never thought about it at all, but you're not wrong. The most likely teacher would probably be Glorfindel, since they were both in the back-to-Middle-earth team. (Though, again, is there any possibility that Finrod wouldn't involve himself in that project?)

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

So far, I think Nerdanel is my favourite non-canonical addition. I like the way she balances her love with her disagreement, how she can be both concerned and ashamed of her sons but doesn't deny either side of the duality. And her reaction to Luthien (along the lines of "He gave up a Silmaril for you? He's a keeper!") was pure gold. Finarfin was questionable initially, but I think he's grown on me. Amarie got more interesting, then less interesting again, but I expect there will be more development to come.

PS: I think the Only Sane Character Award goes to Orodreth. ^.^

Orodreth and Namo have a lot of the same exasperated energy about them, actually... the Script has its ups and downs (Luthien repeats herself several times because different characters needed to respond), but it's so broad in scope that the flaws get swallowed up in the whole.

At least for me.

hS