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Fordim Hedgethistle · 10-30-2006, 10:26 AM

True.

But with the advent of LotR and its much more consciously historically 'realistic' approach to events (that is, it is supposed to 'seem' real and reasonable at every turn) isn't that stance more difficult to maintain? The meticulous attention to detail in the creation (subcreation) of this secondary world means that it all MUST make sense (to Tolkien's way of thinking).

So the Barrow Wight's excellent question still stands: where did the coffee come from? Because even though there is no mention of coffee in LotR, the Shire still exists unchanged from The Hobbit with all of its clocks and umbrellas. Those sorts of manufactured goods are relatively easy to work out -- hobbits and Dwarves are clever and able to make these things. But coffee, sugar and tea can only be made from crops not found in the climate Tolkien describes for the Shire.

Given the assumption left us by the work itself -- that it is internally realistic, logical and subject to the same physical laws as we find in our own world -- and in the absence of any explanation by the author/narrator, what theories can we come up with for the source of these exotic goods.

Saying simply "that's the way he wrote it" is such a cop out. I certainly wouldn't accept that answer to a question like, say, "Why did Gollum fall into the Crack of Doom?" or "Why wasn't Boromir able to resist the Ring?" Why would the very fabric of M-E's physical reality be any less worthy of investigation than the moral questions?

10-30-2006, 10:26 AM	#94
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	True. But with the advent of LotR and its much more consciously historically 'realistic' approach to events (that is, it is supposed to 'seem' real and reasonable at every turn) isn't that stance more difficult to maintain? The meticulous attention to detail in the creation (subcreation) of this secondary world means that it all MUST make sense (to Tolkien's way of thinking). So the Barrow Wight's excellent question still stands: where did the coffee come from? Because even though there is no mention of coffee in LotR, the Shire still exists unchanged from The Hobbit with all of its clocks and umbrellas. Those sorts of manufactured goods are relatively easy to work out -- hobbits and Dwarves are clever and able to make these things. But coffee, sugar and tea can only be made from crops not found in the climate Tolkien describes for the Shire. Given the assumption left us by the work itself -- that it is internally realistic, logical and subject to the same physical laws as we find in our own world -- and in the absence of any explanation by the author/narrator, what theories can we come up with for the source of these exotic goods. Saying simply "that's the way he wrote it" is such a cop out. I certainly wouldn't accept that answer to a question like, say, "Why did Gollum fall into the Crack of Doom?" or "Why wasn't Boromir able to resist the Ring?" Why would the very fabric of M-E's physical reality be any less worthy of investigation than the moral questions? __________________ Scribbling scrabbling.