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Old 04-16-2007, 05:18 PM   #95
the phantom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great and Mighty SPM
Phantom, central to your theory is the proposition that Haldir would not have been able to resist showing off Elven magic - technology - whatever you want to call it, to the Fellowship on the journey through Lothlorien.
Yep. I've established that Haldir is an unnecessary show off. Surely you'll concede that point.

I've also established that "magic" items are simply made the way they are and that they are used as they exist. In other words, you won't hear Celeborn say "Outsiders are coming! Quickly, flip the magic switches on your cloaks so their magic stops working!"

It's not like that. The Elves make objects that have special properties, and that's the way they are, and the Elves use them as they are. If their ropes come untied without effort, that's what they do. Would that be a closely guarded secret?

And is Haldir even an Elf who guards secrets closely? Hmmm?

Think about it. He completely reveals to the Fellowship the way in which the Elves of Lothlorien cross rivers, doesn't he? If Pippin, for instance, was in league with Dol Guldur, he could report "There are no bridges anywhere across the streams and rivers of Lothlorien. The Elves use ropes to cross." Haldir also let the hobbits up into their flet, and they revealed to the Fellowship that they had led the Orcs astray with fake voices.

So let's not pretend that Haldir and company were obsessively secretive.
Quote:
In a fantasy world like Middle-earth, I have no difficulty in believing that an Elven rope could “magically” untie itself if truly willed to do so by its bearer.
Middle-Earth is not a silly anything-goes fake world. There are rules. Tolkien tried to explain most things. He wrote about the principles and rules regarding incarnation, and necromancy, and other things. If any old magic thing could just happen, Middle-Earth would be a stupid place. Tolkien for the most part tried to avoid things like Tom Bombadil. Aragorn cannot jump off a mountain and fly by flapping his arms and willing himself to do it. He is governed by the same laws of nature that are in our world.

You cannot say that things can magically happen outside of rules and explanations just because it is a work of fantasy. That is an insult to the level of realism that Prof Tolkien worked so hard to create.

(of course, I'm not saying you were trying to insult JRRT)
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