[Child of the 7th Age]

Bb, Helen


Hmm! The words are suggestive, but I really do have a question here.

Frodo returning in unearthly form to Cerin Amroth? (Child shudders..... ) That seems diametrically opposed to everything Tolkien stresses in his writing: that we are not to wish for immortality or to cling needlessly to life once it is time to depart. And Frodo and Bilbo, like Aragorn, would have the option of choosing when they passed on.

All the examples I can think of where people's spirits linger on Arda are very unhappy ones -- the B-W and his crew, the residents of the Paths of the Dead. I can't think of a single instance where a "good" soul happily lingered.

Why would Frodo and Aragorn's ghosts still be poking around Middle-earth, unless they were not yet at rest? An image like that doesn't fit in. Given Aragorn's stern deathbed scene, I can not imagine him lingering for Arwen. He would have expected her to come. And to be truthful, no matter how many times I read the words in the appendix and the Downs thread where it is discussed, I still can't help feeling that it is Aragorn who has understood the message of life, and Arwen who lags behind him.

Bb - I did always view those words about Lothlorien as referring to the mutability of time within the borders of Lorien. There are many other phrases in that part of the book that can be explained in a similar way. Flieger also has a great deal to say about this. But never did I regard them as referring to the disposition of the fea after death.

If we leave the example of Frodo aside, it is possible that Arwen could feel an echo of Aragorn in Lorien and Cerin Amroth because of the vows they had exchanged. In that sense, I can understand her wanting to return there. But beyond that I am reluctant to go.

If there's another way of looking at this in terms of Tolkien's overall feelings about life and death, please let me know.

~Child