Thread: Evil things
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Old 04-05-2004, 01:42 AM   #97
davem
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote: Elves remodel the Past, with Preservation in view as the main ends of it. Men seek Change in their subcreative excersises (reasons to be given below).

This is central:as Flieger says, lves are effectively 'facing' into the past, yearning for what has been lost - one of Feanor's appeals is to a memory of Cuivienen, about which were wide lands which a free people might inhabit. It is a pull they all feel back to what
was. I would interpret this as being down to their innate sense of the Music - the further back one goes, the closer one gets to the Ainullindale. They are being pushed 'forward' in time, away from this ideal 'place/state' by Men, & specifically by the changes they introduce, which the Elves feel are somhow 'alien' - ie not contained in the Music. So Men are moving forward, with time, into the future, while Elves are being 'pushed backwards' into the future, away from the only place they could truly feel at peace.

This leads increasingly to a 'mis-use' of magic, which, while it may be 'innate' was intended to be used for subcreation, not to halt time & 'embalm'. Their sub creations become increasingly 'fixed', & less truly (in a primary or secondary sense) alive . The sense one gets is that a 'perfect', in Elven eyes, subcreation would be a world which was frozen in a state of eternal 'perfection', unchanging, one which they would simply stand in awe of forever. But this is a denial of life - which includes change & mortality. Change beyond the world is an alien concept for Elves, simply because the remain within the world, so the world is all they have, & all their hopes are bound within the circles of the world. Men's perspective (conscious or unconscious) takes in this 'extra' dimension, that beyond the world there is 'more than memory'. There is a continuation of life, & of sub-creativity beyond the world.

Even the Elves most 'metaphysical ' speculation is limited to Arda - Men & Elves will live in harmony within Arda remade. Their minds are incapable of concieving an existence beyond the circles of the world. Beyond an existence within Arda Marred lies only the possibility of an existence within Arda Remade. Their minds, bound by the Music, can only concieve of eternal existence in an Arda of some kind. They can concieve of a world which is 'forever beautiful & new' (impossible, because nothing can be forever new, unlesss it is constantly changing, & that would require one 'beautiful thing' to be ceaselessly replaced by some new 'beautiful thing'. They cannot concieve of beauty in flux, in mutability, because the idea of a 'good' change to something new & unthought of is alien to them. The only 'change' they would consider 'good' would be a change that took them 'back'' to the way things were.

Men certainly can, & do, seek to bring into being things contained in Melkor's themes, because both themes contain 'potentials/possibilities'. But in a sense, they are not bound by the Music, so while an Elf would have to choose one theme or the other to actualise, men have the freedom to pick & choose, & would be judged by Eru not on which theme they align themselves to & attempt to make 'real' but rather on what they do with what they take from either theme, because Elves cannot introduce change into the world, so they have a choice only between 'good' & 'evil', whereas men can bring good out of evil, as can Eru.

Men's role in rebuilding Arda is played out both while in the world & beyond the circles of the world. Even if Eru knows everything Men will do before they do it, that knowledge is not necessarally contained within the Music. Eru must know things not contained in the original, or changed themes, if men can introduce change in Arda. So Elves & Valar do not know the whole mind of Eru, or the whole fate of the World - they do not know what happens to Men after death, so even to the Valar not everything is known, or can ever be known, about Arda - even if to Eru it already is.

Quote:Hence human longing, inability to stay quiet at most blessed places, constant seek for something new, to be enjoyed briefly and than thrown away, for everything reminds, but nothing is the real thing. And which may well underlie all of human subcreation. And such a disharmony being the result of the Fall (for otherwise, the bringing of 'new' things would be conscious,

Not necessarally. It could be down simply to the fact that Men were never 'told' what the 'ideal' was & are struggling to find out, making many abortive attempts in the process. Or it could be that Eru has only granted them a general idea of the kind of thing he wants, & is leaving the final form to them.
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