Thread: Evil things
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Old 04-03-2004, 02:54 PM   #94
HerenIstarion
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No lowering of arms, indeed

Quote:
Fea proceeds from Eru, & has some kind of innate sense of (to put it crudely) 'right' & wrong',
With what we gently land into the already quoted criteria of "in times of doubt man must trust his own wisdom..." etc.

By the way, it is not crudely put, it is how I believe it is.

Sub creation re (again):

Now that I think of it, (and if we hold AFAA as the truest account of what there is), it seems to me humans are also sub-creating in the same mode as elves do (for I agree with your points of [ME] elvish sub-creation as intended on preservation). Just humans are sub-creating in a mode of 'what should be', i.e., comparing what they see here in the primary world with what the Arda Remade will be like. So, again, we are as near a consensus as it may be. For, in a sense, the things they are [re]producing may indeed be called new, since they are not there as yet. But again, the novelty is in the eye of the beholder - for if we try to be so daring as to look from Eru's point of view, such a novelty is again a part of original plan, in which Man's part is to help bring Arda Remade about.

To put it more straight - the elves model in their subcreation things as they have been and men things as they might yet be. The modes are similar, sources apart. But from the eternal plane - where the whole Universe with all of its might have beens is laid bare before Eru, who have created it all, there is no mention of anything really new again

I operate with mental images better with words, seemingly, so let us have another picture - imagine a child bringing its father some gadget bought as present. It may gladden father's heart to get it, and it is new thing in his homestead, but if we investigate deep enough, it may be found that money the gadget was bought with was given by the father to his child just the other day. So, in a sense, father has bought his own present. And expression of child's freedom in this picture would be that child was able to buy, for instance, cigarettes for the same money. It was not limited in its actions in that aspect, for there was no instruction, but act of free will (even if it was expressed as crudely as 'pa, give me five bucks, I'm going to buy you a present') and though the purchase of the present would have been in accordance with father's will, and one of tobacco would have been not.

Quote:
but dependent on magic to be convincing
But suppose for an instance that you share my theory as of magical ability in ME being as natural as being good at throwing darts or cooking omelets? Than the whole point is again - humans and elves are sub-creating in the same way, just their inspiration source is different. Replace 'magic' up there with 'literary skill', and the general meaning is not changed a bit.

and, can't stand the temptation, so here comes a sidekick:

Quote:
but not jet engines
Which are to the great extent repetition of the propelling principle well known to some obscure octopussies down there on the ocean floor. And sonars used by bats and dolphins for thousands of millenia. And so forth. So, apart from the wheel, which must have been known to elves too, we are at large repeating what is natural too. By the way, natural jewels are hardly distingushible from mere pebbles. It takes some work on them to look like jewels...

But that does not have much to do with our current topic, so sidekick it must remain
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