[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

Reading Lalwendë's 'defense' of Denethor made me feel a bit remorseful of the way I have viewed him the first time I read this chapter, and even until now. I had the spectator's perspective that made me know more things concerning the Ring than Denethor did, plus I had the privilege of 'being in the Council of Elrond' while he never even saw his 'emissary' to the Council again.

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

My point is less to attack Denethor than to consider how the chapter leads readers to make certain interpretations about its events.

I would not say I was defending Denethor, more that I was trying to view him without the weight of the story bearing down on his character. At this point as readers we have learned much and are fully convinced of the bad effects of the Ring, but Denethor is not, he is a character who has not left Minas Tirith in all that time.

I would suppose that differing viewpoints must originate from the way we read. When we read all the way through we don't tend to drop what we have learned that easily, but for these CbC discussions we are reading slowly and closely. Therefore it is much easier to step into Denethor's shoes as we don't have the impetus to keep going with the story at all costs. I think it is helpful, too, to momentarily unburden ourselves of what we have learned and see what is really going on in this character's mind at this point.

'Do you wish then,' said Faramir, 'that our places had been exchanged?'

'Yes, I wish that indeed,' said Denethor. 'For Boromir was loyal to me and no wizard's pupil. He would have remembered his father's need, and would not have squandered what fortune gave. He would have brought me a mighty gift.'

Denethor is being driven by a host of conflicting emotions at this point. He is suffering grief for his elder son, the city he is responsible for is finally coming under attack after years of waiting, he is also responsible for a great number of people, and we must presume that he has been looking in the Palantir and has been shown things designed to work on his fears and break him down. Here his second son returns with news that just about finishes him off - if he is heading for a mental breakdown then this is the catalyst.

This Ring means a lot to Denethor. He truly believes that it will help him defend his city and people; he is about to see the military strength which Mordor can put forwards and it surpasses his worst fears, and Gondor stands no chance against this enemy. He needs that Ring. These are desperate days, and time is running out, and we see all these characters in a heightened state of fear, which is partly why they fail to communicate effectively with each other. There is no time, and tempers are high.

Denethor, who is not only a father but a leader, has sent one son to bring the Ring to Gondor, and he has lost him. Not only that, but he has only just heard how his son died. His other son has been given the opportunity to take the Ring on his own doorstep and has turned it down. Denethor cannot believe this. Consider how one son has accepted the task he has offered and died in the process, while the other son is handed success on a plate and turns it down. If we apply this to a modern situation then Denethor's reaction is wrong, but it is also not unexpected, especially for a man cracking under pressure.

Bearing in mind that Faramir is suffering not only grief at the death of his brother (and close comrades?) but also a blow to his own self-worth in seeing Minas Tirith finally beginning to succumb, and we also have Gandalf making an appearance, and miscommunication becomes increasingly likely. It does seem that Denethor has a long standing resentment against Gandalf for his influence on his second son, and this is brought bubbling to the surface when he finds out what opportunity Faramir has given up. He clearly believes that Faramir has been influenced more by his sometime mentor than by his own father, and such a reaction is believable as it stems from the seething instincts of love and jealousy. This is what is interesting about what Denethor spits out at Faramir. he could mean that he wishes he had Boromir back by his side, but it could also mean that he simply wishes that it had been Boromir who met Frodo defenceless in Ithilien.

I think that the story is so much more effective, and conveys far more of the tragedy when we can look at it through the eyes of each character and how they respond to events. I'd rather not look at Denethor as a flat out bad guy. I'm not seeking to defend him, but I want to know why he reacts in the way he does, as the story must have been written that way for a very good reason.