[Boromir88]

The lovely thing about reading books is the amount of imagination involved.~Formendacil

Excellent point and thats the creativeness of JRR Tolkien. We have one description, one paragraph, but are able to imagine/interpret it several different ways. As I think you can see from this thread all three of us have similar, yet different views of Boromir's character. And I don't think one of us is more 'right' than any other, as we all have good reasons for imagining Boromir the way we do. That's what a good book does, opens up the imagination, and supports several different perspectives.

And I know what happens with me, is when I get an idea into my head everything I find often seems to go to support my particular view...I'm a very biased person . That's where discussions like this really help me out and gets me seeing things a bit differently (even though I disagree and I still think I'm right. )

but Boromir was not best portrayed, not by a long shot.

I think I can agree with ya there...he wasn't the best portrayed simply because of that Osgiliath scene in the EE I think would be enough to show that he wasn't the best portrayed. I was just making an argument as to what I thought the movies got right about him.

How can you not consider apperance when you think of portrayal?

I do consider appearance, I just said I don't think too much into the 'appearance' part. As I did criticize Sam, Merry, and Pippin's appearance in the film, it would be a bit hypocritical for me then to say appearance doesn't matter in Boromir's portrayal.

I just don't consider it to be big deal when compared to traits and personality...as for me, thats what I think about the most when it comes to portrayal. Did Bean and Jackson get Boromir's mannerisms and personality correct? As its those things which 'bring the character to life on screen', for me, where somebody else may be different and place their emphasis on...say Boromir's appearance.

The scene does show their bond, but that does not make up for the rest of the atrocities of this scene.

I can think of them seperately as they try to show two different things about Boromir...one (the love between the two brothers) which is a good and accurate portrayal. The other his bowing to Daddy's wishes and going to Rivendell as an undercover agent (something completely wrong and I absolutely wish that scene never made it in). Since, I do think they are portraying two seperate things I don't think one makes the other 'worse,' nor does one make the other 'better.'

How was Boromir supposed to know a hideous monster dwelled within the water?

Interesting take on things, I think I saw it as childish because I imagined it as something Pippin would do...not the 'Captain-General' of Gondor. It seemed that Boromir acted more out of anger than anything else...it wasn't like he was skipping rocks to try to keep himself entertained:

'How I hate this foul pool!' He stooped and picked up a large stone he cast it far into the dark water.
[...]
'Why did you do that, Boromir? said Frodo. 'I hate this place, too, and I am afraid...I am afraid of the pool. Don't disturb it.'~A Journey in the Dark

I see it as rather childish because he's angry (maybe about having to go through Moria?) and so he just throws in a giant rock.

I still would not call it childish, anyway. If you do not want to go somewhere, you would say it, would you not? I would.

I would too, and Boromir being the leader that he was back in Gondor it's more understandable that he would be the one objecting, since he was used to the leadership role and getting things done his way. However, I think its the way he reacts (like he does at the Gates of Moria)...it seems a lot like frustration; and rather like a tantrem. Instead of just objecting and saying 'I don't think this is a good idea' I think it's just the way I read the remark...It reminds me of something I would do as a kid, when I didn't want to go some where...'If dad's not going I don't have to either!.'

And there are other times when he has some sarcastic remarks...who was it that said sarcasm was the lowest form of wit?

'But the Enemy holds the eastern bank,' objected Boromir. 'And even if you pass the Gates of Argonath and come unmolested to the Tindrock, what will you do then? Leap down the Falls and land in the marshes?'~The Great River

I think this is both sarcastic and ironic. Sarcastic because Boromir doesn't agree with the path Aragorn wants to take and he's making some little jabs at it. Ironic because it is Boromir who arguably goes 'leaping down the falls' into 'the marshes.'

Is this a point on why you liked the movie Boromir? If so, why do you go on to explain yourself like you are defending the position? I never made any comment about the portrayal of the relationship of Boromir and Aragorn

Aye, sorry about that little confusion. I was saying that I liked that part of the movie with Boromir and I went on to explain growth in their relationship. Sorry, if I misunderstood but I thought you were saying Boromir acting 'paranoid' about Aragorn's claim was a wrong portrayal. Where I thought Aragorn's claim to the throne of Gondor, at least at first, was something that slightly unnerved/skeptical of Aragorn.

I do agree though that the movies do not show the 'lordly' quality of Boromir when it comes to this part. As the lordly Boromir of the books, eventhough he seemed to not like Aragorn's claim (at the Council), Frodo does say that he always treated Aragorn with respect. And Faramir points out that Boromir was that type of person...this I do agree is missing in the movies.

Look at Eomer's last words in that sentence..."he seemed to me". That is Eomer's opinion alone.

Yes, it was Eomer's opinion, but I think we can take it to be true. As Eomer says he had seen Boromir before, and in seeing Boromir he seemed more like the 'swift sons of Eorl' than those 'grave men in Gondor.' And eventhough Boromir was from Gondor, Eomer seperates him from the 'grave men of Gondor.' Also, I think his passion for Gondor (and for Gondor's victory) shows that he was not like the typical 'grave' men of his country.

but the fact that Boromir suppressed this lust until Galadriel tested him is saying a lot more of his character than all along having the Ring on his mind, which PJ's softer willed Boromir did

I concede, that's a good point.

What is your argument here? How can you disagree when you yourself say that Jackson chose not to show Boromir's shining moments?

My argument was eventhough Jackson did not have the warg scene, directing the boats through Sarn Gebir...etc Boromir's strength and what he does for the Fellowship I think still shows up in the movie. As I mentioned he is the one carrying Merry and Pippin up Caradhras, and he is the one to suggest to turn back. I haven't seen the extended fight of Moria in a long time, so I'll have to get back to you...I do just remember Aragorn coming in to save his arse. But anyway, I was saying eventhough Jackson doesn't add any of those scenes, I still think Boromir's greatest asset to the Fellowship...his strength/fighting prowess, shows up in other places during the movie.

Agreed, yet PJ still does not include Boromir's smile.

And I agree with you about the smile...I'll have to watch the scene again (as I haven't seen the movie in a little while). But I do vaguely remember Boromir expressing a certain hapiness/peacefulness before he dies. I'll take your word that he doesn't smile, but Aragorn does lay Boromir's sword in his hand and Boromir brings it to his chest...then I think Aragorn kisses him on the forehead, which I think all shows the final end of Boromir quite well. It speaks back to Aragorn and Gandalf's words about Boromir 'conquering in the end,' the 'final note' Aragorn and Boromir end on...there may have been tension along the road but they both realized they were brothers in the same conflict. The 'smile' shows Boromir's end is a peaceful one, and I think this is still shown in the movies...the smile probably would have been easier and better though.

Side note- they got away with countless arrows in the warriors of the movie "300".

That was so the famous line 'Then we'll fight in the shade' makes sense.

So, now that I look at it, I think the main disagreement comes with just how we think of 'portrayal.' Particularly around Boromir's death scene. Eventhough if Jackson alters the scene and changes it, I think the message is still there. I get the same feeling watching it on screen as I did reading the books, Jackson just shows the 'final stand' differently. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is your argument then that the way Jackson portrays the scene...although delivers the same feelings, it doesn't show Boromir's strength and bravery to the extent the books do with Boromir's death? Therefor, the portrayal, allthough isn't wrong, it's not as good as it could have been?