Quote:
Originally Posted by skip spence
No, you are certainly right about that. In Arda there is Good and there is Bad, and these are objective qualities. But what I meant I suppose is that its inhabitants instinctively seem to be able to tell good from bad without any help from clerics or holy books that establish a moral standard...
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I think I see your point, but do have a couple of observations about it.
First, it may not be easy to distinguish (whether in Arda or in our world) between an understanding of "good" that is
instinctive vs an understanding that is
taught.
The peoples of the West (whether Numenorean or other) had a long history of teaching derived from the Valar - both via the Noldor and via Maia sent among the Edain at the end of the First age. Tho possibly garbled with time, that was still handed down and taught over the years. And they retained contacts with the Eldar even into the Third Age - which would help reduce the level of "garblege". The peoples of the East & South had a long history of servitude to Sauron coloring their beliefs of good and bad.
Second, even with that, and with the limited records we have, the inhabitants of Arda are frequently choosing "bad" - suggesting their "instincts" may not be all that much different from ours. For example (just to list a few)...
- Elves: Thingol locks up his daughter in a treehouse rather than let her elope.
- Elves: Turgon grows so proud he refuses the direct advice of a Vala and dooms his people to death and destruction.
- Elves: Celebrimbor leads a coup in Eregion to supplant Galadriel & Celeborn and place his guild in charge.
- Elves: Galadriel & Celeborn ban all Dwarves from Lorien for hundreds of years even tho Dwarves were as much victims of the Balrog as Elves.
- Dwarves: Sneaky murder of Thngol, lying about it and leading an army to sack Menegroth.
- Dwarves: Some (of all races, incl Dwarves) fought WITH Sauron at the end of the 2nd Age.
- Dwarves: Greed of Thorin willing to have a war rather than be generous with his wealth after fall of Smaug.
- Ents: Skinbark refused to participate in defeating Saruman.
- Ents/Huorns: Per Treebeard "there are dales in this land where the Darkness has never been lifted".
- Men: It is said that well nigh all the peoples of the east & south were under Sauron's sway - and worshiped him as a god.
- Men: Castamir usurped the throne of Eldacar leading tot he Civil War of the kin-strife.
- Men: Servants of Denethor were so confused about "what was right" they got into a fight in the Hallows leading to the volient killing of some (by Beregond).
- Men: The rebellion of Numenor.
- Men: The pride of Aldarion & Erendis leading to their estrangement and Ancalime growing up with a rather jaundiced view of men - leading to her own final marriage (simply to deny the throne to one she didn't like).
- Hobbits: Lobellia S.B. stealing silver spoons from Bilbo (and trying to steal things from Frodo after Bilbo leaves).
- Hobbits: Ted Sandyman going over to the ruffian's side and helping to pollute "The Water".
That Hobbits seem to have fewer bad examples may be due less to instinct than to their more insular (and less stressful) situation - at least at the times the records deal with leading up to the War of the Ring.
A rough parallel might be to consider how a small, rural, mid-western, U.S. prairie town of 1100 is likely to have less crime & delinquency per-capita than, say, the Inner City of Los Angeles or New York. In the smaller setting, everyone pretty much knows everyone and, if someone starts to go off the path, there is tremendous pressure to bring them back.
But that is less a matter of instinct about what is "good" than pressure to conform to the local "standard" - whatever it is.