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Old 12-05-2012, 08:06 PM   #7
jallanite
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cellurdur View Post
I had not seen that letter from Tolkien. His word appears to be final and Gandalf was wrong. This makes sense, because unlike the other rings, the 3 were never touched by mortal hands.
Gandalf was wearing one of the Elven rings, Narya, the Ring of Fire, given to him by Círdan when Gandalf first came to Middle-earth. It didn’t make him automatically invisible. Another Elven ring was worn by Galadriel, who was not automatically made invisible by it. The third Elven ring was worn by Elrond, who also was not automatically made invisible by it. Nor are do any of these three apparently fear being eventually turned into wraiths because of wearing an Elven-ring.

The first half of the Milton Waldmam letter appears in the “Preface to the Second Edition” in all printings of The Silmarillion since 1999 and so is easily found. It says, in part:
And finally they [the rings partly created by Sauron] had other powers, more directly derived from Sauron (‘the Necromancer’: so he is called as he cast a fleeting shadow and presage on the pages of The Hobbit): such a rendering invisible the material body, and making things of the invisible world visible
Gandalf must be imagined to have well known about the powers of the Elven rings compared to those Rings of Power in which Sauron had a hand. That Gandalf appears to confuse the two types of rings in his explication to Frodo appears to me to be likely a confusion introduced by Tolkien who does not properly distinguish them in the words he puts into Gandàlf’s mouth. Tolkien has Gandalf claim that he believes no case of a bearer of a Great Ring of Power who freely gave up the ring to another is known, yet Gandalf himself is secretly wearing Narya at the time which was given up freely to Gandalf by Cíirdan.

Quote:
As for Dior I am not convinced he was immortal. Until Earendil's voyage it seems the Valar were still unsure of what to do with the Half-Elven. It is only after Earendil enters Valinor do they make a decree.
When Dior was slain his spirit would have been summoned to Mandos and would either be placed among the other Elves there or be placed among Men to be sent out of the world. That would have been the point where the Valar would have had to decide whether Dior was a mortal Man or an immortal Elf. But Tolkien does not say.

Quote:
A similar situation appears to be the rehousing of elvish bodies. In Morgoth's ring Tolkien implies Manwe had yet no firm answer when the dark elves started dying and had to consult with Eru to find a solution.
I don’t recall this. Please cite the page where this is found. Note that in the published Silmarillion some Elves had already been taken by Melkor before the existence of the Elves was known to any of the Valar.
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