[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

No, they did not all confer invisibility. You are using a character in a book without complete knowledge of the subject to bolster your point. I prefer the author himself:

I had not seen that letter from Tolkien. His word appears to be final and Gandalf was wrong. This makes sense, because unlike the other rings, the 3 were never touched by mortal hands.

If one considers that the Dwarves, too, were mortal and did not disappear, I would say Gandalf did not know what he's talking about. But that's okay, he makes false assumptions elsewhere in the book. He is not infallible. In any case, the Three Elven Rings were made solely by the Elves, and Sauron had no hand in their making; therefore, none of the powers conferred by Sauron were upon them.

The dwarves are a special case. Aule made them very strong and sufficient. Nothing really worked on them. Really apart from greed and revenge, I don't think the dwarves were ever corrupted.

I agree Gandalf was fallible and he appears to be wrong. There was no difference between the 7 and the 9. The only distinction came in where they were hidden and to whom they were given by Sauron. It is even possible that some of the recovered 7 (the 3 Sauron had recovered were used by mortal servants of Sauron).

I think Gandalf is making a valid assumption. If the One ring conferred invisibility and the other 16 Great Rings did then he assumed so did the 3. Though a logical assumption, Tolkien confirms he was wrong.

The men who held the Nine Rings did not vanish instantly either. They could, if they wished, turn invisible, but they could remain visible wearing the Rings:

The quote from the Silmarillion does not suggest they could turn off and on the invisibility when they wanted. It could just mean that when they CHOSE to wear the ring they turned invisible. Impossible to judge for certain.

In regards to Beren and his son, both of whom held a Silmaril unscathed, I would suggest Varda must not have been very good with spells.

Beren was destined to obtain a Silmaril and was a special case. The Valar allowed it. Him being able to touch it is written as if it something noteworthy.

As he closed it in his hand, the radiance welled through his living flesh, and his hand became as a shining lamp; but the jewel suffered his touch and hurt him not.

As for Dior I am not convinced he was immortal. Until Earendil's voyage it seems the Valar were still unsure of what to do with the Half-Elven. It is only after Earendil enters Valinor do they make a decree. A similar situation appears to be the rehousing of elvish bodies. In Morgoth's ring Tolkien implies Manwe had yet no firm answer when the dark elves started dying and had to consult with Eru to find a solution. I would assume there was similar confusion about the Half-elven at that point.

Beren was a very very very VERY special case. And Dior was not strictly mortal.

PS: welcome to the Downs, cellurdur!

Thanks for the welcome and agree with what you said Galadriel55.

I don't think there had yet been a ruling from the Valar/Eru about Dior when he was alive.
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