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Old 10-08-2022, 10:45 AM   #7
Galadriel55
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
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Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
I've been finding myself putting off watching this, I'm watching along rather reluctantly, almost as a chore rather than something I would look forward to. I feel like that speaks to the quality of the show, really. Long past my actual anger at any inconsistencies has burned away, all that's left is, well, indifference mainly. There just isn't enough in this show to keep stimulating interest. I would not lose a wink of sleep if I never found out what happens next. And I fear this episode hasn't changed my mind.

This time, I decided to actually take notes like Form, rather than try to remember things after the episode.



  • Adar talking to Orcs in immaculate “Elvish accent”… *shrug* Orcs should have Orcified the Elvish geographical names, it just gives a smidge of dissonance. In other words – the Orcs use Black Speech amongst themselves, but their awed and revered leader speaks Elvish, and chooses to use the Elvish forms of the words, and that’s just their norm?
  • What is Nampat? They keep saying that.
  • Why are the Orcs invading so cautiously? Storm the tower, don’t creep slowly like you’re confused sheep.
  • Clever Home Alone style tower defense. Aside from the physics of bringing down an entire tower (how shabby was it supposed to have been?), I like that – at least the concept of the ploy.
  • Why do the “good guys” have Orc heads on spikes? Or is that meant to anger the Orcs and lure them in to rush to whatever position they want them in? Or the good guys have an evil streak as well?
  • Planting Alfirin before battle seems like a somewhat grim but believable tradition. Approve. “We shall plant the rest together”, all 3 of them – well, now that he’s said it we clearly know they won’t.
  • Did Arondir stab that Orc in the head and he still didn’t die? The thing with that fight scene… Arondir gets his ribs kicked in pretty convincingly, but at the same time I feel no tension whatsoever, because I know he’s not actually gonna be killed. And when he just gets up after like nothing happened… What was that whole sequence for? Like, limp, or something! Make it real! Make me believe that you can actually be hurt by this!
  • Double Orc assault! Adar is actually a strategic planner too! Woohoo! And of course it would be the Men who pledged themselves over who go in the first wave. That makes perfect sense, and is pretty well done.
  • So they just have time to deal with Bronwyn’s arrow while the orcs are charging? Sure… Also, is she really the only wounded one to make it into the tavern? Did the others all flat out die?
  • What part of “stem the bleeding” do you not understand?! Also, that is a terrible example of getting lay people to do medical tasks for you. Tell Theo exactly what he will need to do. “Put pressure here when I say so” is a good instruction. “Stem the bleeding” is not. PSA: pressure is the first and best thing you can do for bleeding of most kinds. Making Theo cauterize his mom’s wounds? Worst idea ever. Get literally anyone else in the tavern to do it. Why is it that only the few select characters are able to do actions, and the rest are NPCs? It’s like they don’t exist as people, they don’t have agency of their own. [Here I went on a rant about why cauterizing the bejeezus out of the external tissues doesn’t stop internal bleeding, especially if there was damage to her subclavian vein (if it was the artery I expect bleeding to be heavier and with their level or coordination she would have been dead), but I took it out because it actually has little bearing on the actual show and is just a professional gripe]. Alfirin seeds to staunch bleeding? That is interesting.
  • *Orcs attack* ……Ladies and gentlemen, and that is why you leave an arrow inside the wound until after the battle is over and you have the time to deal with the bleeding and all that jazz.
  • Seriously, what is Nampat?
  • A homage to PJ-Elrond’s tradition that commanders have no helmets, commanders need no helmets. And late season GOT for ignoring such mundane concepts as “time” and “distance” and “horses are not supersonic” and "why are they specifically here as opposed to literally anywhere else in the vast south-east corner of ME".
  • Is that Isildur by Miriel’s side? “Go” – where? To where the rest of the cavalry is? Why? He doesn't have a message or any other task. Isil, are you not a stable sweep? What are you even doing by Miriel’s side?
  • Captions insist that Arondir and Galadriel are speaking Quenya. Why would Arondir be speaking Quenya? I can’t make out enough words to confirm the language, but why on earth would they be speaking Quenya? And then when Galadriel switches to a whispered “noro lim”, then she switches to Sindarin. Should be the other way around really. No, the recognizable phrase should be in its language, though it could conceivably be in Quenya, but Arondir doesn’t have any good reason to be speaking Quenya.
  • Where is Halbrand riding from? Adar and Galadriel were riding away from the fight. How does he suddenly appear in front of them?
  • Rich talk, Galadriel, for someone who spent the first 6 episodes fueling her rage and vengeance.
  • Captive Orcs. That is interesting. I don’t think there’s any precedent for that. Captive Men – yes. I don’t remember captive Orcs. There always seemed to be a dynamic of no quarter asked / no quarter given when Orcs were concerned.
  • Who woulda thunk it that “Father” could have been a literal Orc father. Whoever was betting on that can collect. I suppose this could arguably retrospectively justify the Elvish – “Adar”, and why he is so fond of it, and why the other Orcs tolerate his use of the Elvish.
  • Interesting discussion on the nature of Orcs.
  • What the hell is going on with the dynamic between Halbrand and Galadriel? Also, that feeling they felt fighting at each other’s side – it all sounds like empty words to me, I have no idea what significance this has for them, especially for Halbrand. You can’t both keep his entire past a teasing mystery, and expect the audience to feel the profoundness of such a moment. I simply do not understand what feeling they are talking about and why that would change them both so profoundly.
  • True King of the Southlands could have been developed better, I think. It’s an element bereft of backstory. It’s just kinda random. And in this case, you can’t even fill in the gaps with existing Tolkien lore. It comes like a dry fact or “plot twist” of history that everyone just accepts. I don’t feel the significance of his coming for the different parties involved. At the time of this scene, I can’t really see how life with a king is different than without a king.
  • Who is that dude again, the one who got the Lugrom blade? Is that the evil barkeep? Also, did anyone catch at what point they actually swapped the blade out?
  • Is this how the Sea of Nurnen forms? Someone literally floods the whole area? (edit: never mind)
  • Why are they chanting Udun now? Seriously, do the Orc chants have any significance, or are they just chanting random words for the sound effect?
  • Can you actually trigger a volcanic eruption by pouring water into it? A bunch of steam – yes. If enough water vapourizes quickly enough in the right space, it could even make the rock explode. Would it trigger a full eruption? Dunno. Anyone know enough geology to comment?


Overall impression:

I like Adar and the Orc philosophizing. The Orcs in this show are definitely a plus.
I like the Alfirin traditions - plant the flower before battle which will either grow on your grave or stanch your wounds... It just seems appropriate.
I am profoundly unmoved by any of the emotional or epic stuff - it's hard to be invested when you know the characters are gonna live, or to feel the emotional suspense when you lack the characters' backstory. And I agree that the scene sequences and the pacing was not great - and the dialogue remains predictably so.
The volcano cliffhanger loses all its cliffhanginess because you know all the important characters will live.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil-Galad
Everyone is going to survive cause that tavern is made of something stronger then mithril: plot armour.
Lol. Yes. But - at some point in the show, one of Isildur's buddies is gonna die. My money is on the one that decided fighting is not for him after all, and he wants to dedicate himself to peaceful prospects.

Agree with everyone saying Halbrand is becoming increasingly Sauronian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rune
Also completely unreleated, is Halbrand's kingdom supposed to compose of more than a single village?
Yes, that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddwen
Yeah, seal the outside of the wounds so all the blood leaks inside where it's supposed to be!
Thank you!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Form
Isildur, that apple was not finished enough to waste throwing to the sea.
Lol, indeed. It looked big enough to still give Bill Ferny a black eye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Form
If Bronwyn actually dies here, with the proverbial arrow through her shoulder, that's actually quite gutsy of the writers--otherwise, rather trite.
I feel like in part the dynamic of the show could be redeemed a little if they did even one gutsy thing. Kill a Ned Stark, for goodness sakes, so that we start believing that there is actual real danger to named characters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Form
I'd like a longer look at Halbrand's sigil.
Me too.



So - I feel like my impressions are pretty consistent with everyone else's so far on this thread. I absolutely agree that the Adar storyline was the best of this episode. And that the scale of the world and its people seems utterly arbitrary. And pretty much all the other points. Only thing I would disagree with is that I would call the volcano an anti-cliffhanger, as it doesn't really hang you very much. I am also seriously considering not watching any further at this point - but equally might just finish the season for the purpose of being able to discuss it here. If not for the social aspect of discussing it, I wouldn't be watching any further. Heck, I probably wouldn't even have watched this episode.
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Last edited by Galadriel55; 10-10-2022 at 10:45 AM. Reason: Fixed formatting
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