The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Thirty silver pennies in a fundamentally religious and Catholic work

Balfrog · 08-19-2018, 10:15 PM

Morthoron

“I fail to see how this matters to the discussion or alters your fraudulence one jot or tittle.”

Oh no – but in reality you do see! You just don't want to admit it. But I knew you wouldn't be honorable – and say 'yep Balfrog – I asked for evidence and you provided it'. Have to chuckle - so I was impersonating Ms. Seth a year before she even started her web-site? Yeah right - totally 'believable'. The only fraudulent claims about who I am – are yours!

All five points in your attempt to provide justification for your habitual advertisement are laughably lame.

Bottom line: - you advertise your blog in every single post you make. I do not do that for Ms. Seth.
So who's really the 'click-baiter'?

Spam? That doesn't even come into the equation – you must 'smokin somethin' mighty strange' when Ms. Seth's web-site is totally about Tolkien!
Is your site totally concerned with Tolkien?
Or is there a bunch of spam in there?
Yes? No?
Ugh - Definitely so!

Anyway I refuse to be drawn into any more arguments about spam, identities, etc. etc, in this thread.
The subject is closed. If you want to still raise such asinine matters – I suggest you open another thread, and you can continue to make a laughing stock of yourself.

“By the way, your comment that an atheist would not be able to understand the perspective of a Catholic is nonsense, and profoundly dumb.”

Do you know what I meant by 'the light' ?
Per your response – it appears you didn't.

The only matter of interest you raised – again has its weaknesses, and falls flat.

“Tolkien, an ardent Catholic, wouldn't make light of Judas' betrayal of Christ.”

The Eucharistic bread of the blessed sacrament held way more significant meaning to Tolkien. It was intimately connected with sustaining inner morale – and its intake was part of regular worshiping habits. Yet he decided to symbolize its presence in the book. Then why not '30 silver pennies'?

If asked any normal, truthful person who knows the Judas part of the Biblical story well:

What were the pieces of silver? The reply would be: 'silver coins'.

If I then asked what is a penny? The answer would be: 'a coin'.

If I went on to ask, Is a silver penny a silver piece? The answer would be: 'yes'.

Morthoron – please don't act silly. Make like you deserve the mighty Asgardian 'God of Thunder' in your name.

'30 silver pieces' = 30 silver coins, & for Tolkien's Shire inhabitants is most aptly convertible to '30 silver pennies'.

That's 'symbolism' for you. Meaning matters do not have to match word for word per the two texts. Apart from me, I'm sure others can see, that the link between 'pennies' and 'pieces' is extremely strong. Why can't you? Why can't you see the light?

Perhaps I already know the answer.

Boromir88

“Priya Seth arguments she has put forward … claiming that Tolkien was a chronic liar.”

Nonsense. I don't see this anywhere in her articles. What a gross exaggeration. Ms. Seth has put forth her position most diplomatically. And she is far from the only one who has questioned Tolkien's veracity – especially when it comes to 'allegory'. Take a careful read of Tom Shippey's Author of the Twentieth Century – it might change your view.

"If you and Priya Seth want to interpret the "30 silver pennies" as a biblical allegory and Judas connection in LOTR...go for it."

Er – where have I said this allegory? Under the essay being discussed within this thread, there is absolutely no place where Ms. Seth states that the 'thirty silver pennies' is allegorical. You are making this up. It's pure unadulterated fabrication on your part.

Lastly if you want to bring up 'allegory', I leave you with the Professor's own words for the only TLotR character he used such terminology for – namely 'Tom Bombadil' :

“ he is then an 'allegory' ” (Letter #153)

Given that - certainly TLotR readers are entitled to debate the matter.

“I'm not even sure why I'm wasting my time typing the response below, because this is going to be my only response and if you persist in your Priya Seth spamming on this forum I'm going to block your profile.“

No great loss - please go ahead. If the above reflects the caliber of debating skills and your extent of intellectual understanding from reading Ms. Seth's articles, then I'd rather not have your contribution.

Inziladun

I totally understand – that there are those who have no desire to 'cut up the ball in search of its bounce'.
I know that there are those who wish to stick to the strict text of Tolkien – be it his books or correspondences.

These set of articles is not for them. If you are within that category (as you seem to indicate) - I understand how your interest might wane.

There are however plenty of 'unknowns' that obviously only Professor Tolkien could have resolved for certain. That doesn't stop many (Ms. Seth is far from alone) from trying to dig deeper and understand some of those 'mysteries'. For me – her articles make more sense about Bombadil, Goldberry, the barrow episode and the roots of The Hobbit, than anyone else. Granted that might not be the opinion of others.

As far as 'honest debate' – I have tried to do so – though perhaps too fiercely for some members liking. Nevertheless – I certainly have willingly conceded on points raised where I am wrong or there are other strong counter-arguments. Indeed I have followed a general 'honor code' for debate. That is certainly not the case for at least one forum member.

08-19-2018, 10:15 PM	#30
Balfrog Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 87	Morthoron “I fail to see how this matters to the discussion or alters your fraudulence one jot or tittle.” Oh no – but in reality you do see! You just don't want to admit it. But I knew you wouldn't be honorable – and say 'yep Balfrog – I asked for evidence and you provided it'. Have to chuckle - so I was impersonating Ms. Seth a year before she even started her web-site? Yeah right - totally 'believable'. The only fraudulent claims about who I am – are yours! All five points in your attempt to provide justification for your habitual advertisement are laughably lame. Bottom line: - you advertise your blog in every single post you make. I do not do that for Ms. Seth. So who's really the 'click-baiter'? Spam? That doesn't even come into the equation – you must 'smokin somethin' mighty strange' when Ms. Seth's web-site is totally about Tolkien! Is your site totally concerned with Tolkien? Or is there a bunch of spam in there? Yes? No? Ugh - Definitely so! Anyway I refuse to be drawn into any more arguments about spam, identities, etc. etc, in this thread. The subject is closed. If you want to still raise such asinine matters – I suggest you open another thread, and you can continue to make a laughing stock of yourself. “By the way, your comment that an atheist would not be able to understand the perspective of a Catholic is nonsense, and profoundly dumb.” Do you know what I meant by 'the light' ? Per your response – it appears you didn't. The only matter of interest you raised – again has its weaknesses, and falls flat. “Tolkien, an ardent Catholic, wouldn't make light of Judas' betrayal of Christ.” The Eucharistic bread of the blessed sacrament held way more significant meaning to Tolkien. It was intimately connected with sustaining inner morale – and its intake was part of regular worshiping habits. Yet he decided to symbolize its presence in the book. Then why not '30 silver pennies'? If asked any normal, truthful person who knows the Judas part of the Biblical story well: What were the pieces of silver? The reply would be: 'silver coins'. If I then asked what is a penny? The answer would be: 'a coin'. If I went on to ask, Is a silver penny a silver piece? The answer would be: 'yes'. Morthoron – please don't act silly. Make like you deserve the mighty Asgardian 'God of Thunder' in your name. '30 silver pieces' = 30 silver coins, & for Tolkien's Shire inhabitants is most aptly convertible to '30 silver pennies'. That's 'symbolism' for you. Meaning matters do not have to match word for word per the two texts. Apart from me, I'm sure others can see, that the link between 'pennies' and 'pieces' is extremely strong. Why can't you? Why can't you see the light? Perhaps I already know the answer. Boromir88 “Priya Seth arguments she has put forward … claiming that Tolkien was a chronic liar.” Nonsense. I don't see this anywhere in her articles. What a gross exaggeration. Ms. Seth has put forth her position most diplomatically. And she is far from the only one who has questioned Tolkien's veracity – especially when it comes to 'allegory'. Take a careful read of Tom Shippey's Author of the Twentieth Century – it might change your view. "If you and Priya Seth want to interpret the "30 silver pennies" as a biblical allegory and Judas connection in LOTR...go for it." Er – where have I said this allegory? Under the essay being discussed within this thread, there is absolutely no place where Ms. Seth states that the 'thirty silver pennies' is allegorical. You are making this up. It's pure unadulterated fabrication on your part. Lastly if you want to bring up 'allegory', I leave you with the Professor's own words for the only TLotR character he used such terminology for – namely 'Tom Bombadil' : “ he is then an 'allegory' ” (Letter #153) Given that - certainly TLotR readers are entitled to debate the matter. “I'm not even sure why I'm wasting my time typing the response below, because this is going to be my only response and if you persist in your Priya Seth spamming on this forum I'm going to block your profile.“ No great loss - please go ahead. If the above reflects the caliber of debating skills and your extent of intellectual understanding from reading Ms. Seth's articles, then I'd rather not have your contribution. Inziladun I totally understand – that there are those who have no desire to 'cut up the ball in search of its bounce'. I know that there are those who wish to stick to the strict text of Tolkien – be it his books or correspondences. These set of articles is not for them. If you are within that category (as you seem to indicate) - I understand how your interest might wane. There are however plenty of 'unknowns' that obviously only Professor Tolkien could have resolved for certain. That doesn't stop many (Ms. Seth is far from alone) from trying to dig deeper and understand some of those 'mysteries'. For me – her articles make more sense about Bombadil, Goldberry, the barrow episode and the roots of The Hobbit, than anyone else. Granted that might not be the opinion of others. As far as 'honest debate' – I have tried to do so – though perhaps too fiercely for some members liking. Nevertheless – I certainly have willingly conceded on points raised where I am wrong or there are other strong counter-arguments. Indeed I have followed a general 'honor code' for debate. That is certainly not the case for at least one forum member.