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Originally Posted by littlemanpoet
Now to throw in a wrinkle. It has been said that humility is 'knowing oneself, both flaws and strengths'. But that definition seems insufficient. Perhaps it would be best to add the following qualifier: '... and valuing them appropriately.'
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Interesting definition of humility-- not the one I'm used to, which is this: Having an accurate view of God and having an accurate view of yourself in light of that. What the equivalent ME definition would be, I'm not certain. Perhaps Gandalf's 'humility' is clearer, because he has a more accurate view or Eru than most?
For Aragorn to take the attitude that he wasn't the most doughty warrior and the most capable tactician around, would, in most cases, have been inaccurate-- therefore false humility. I think much of Aragorn's attitudes that we percieve as pride, I would view as practical honesty. 'Shall we argue about whether I am the best candidate here, or shall we proceed to something worth arguing about?" Is that arrogance, or practicality? Since Aragorn is the ME equivalent of a Navy Seal or an Army Ranger-- or a Force Reconnaissance Marine-- arguing about his capabilities usually IS a waste of time. He's usually the best.
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Originally Posted by littlemanpoet
Does your typical Gondorian value honor above life, or vice versa? In other words, is it more important to your average dweller in Minas Tirith, or Pelargir, or Dol Amroth, to:
1. be considered to be upright?
2. be upright regardless of what others think?
3. stay alive?
Obviously, I'm partly asking for a stretch of imagination, but I would hope that Tolkien provided some clues. I for one intend to see what I can discover in the books; maybe you can help?
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I think it depends on the Gondorian. I expect mature soldiers would have attitude (2)-- Be upright regardless of what others think; while some of the younger soldiers, or recruits or wannabes, might still be learning about what is upright, and so need the guidance of older folks, and so be much more dependant on what others considered to be upright, hence attitude (1), be considered to be upright and figure then they might be on the right track they hope. And then there are those who just plain want to survive; but why would they live in Minas Tirith? Seems to me that such folk woiuld have departed for calmer territory already.
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Originally Posted by Gurthang
Well, one thing that I can think of really quickly is the mustering of the Gondorian forces to Minas Tirith. Everyone knew that the city was going to be attacked the hardest, yet all those troops came to it's aid. I think this shows that most of them cared more about honor than their own lives, for surely it would have been safer to stay at home or flee westward. Although, this may only indicate the minds of the military, who I think usually hold honor over self. I think most soldiers would, or they wouldn't be soldiers.
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A hearty amen to that. I think those who wanted safety first, weren't in Minas Tirith anymore.