The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Orcseys

davem · 03-31-2006, 04:03 PM

The central problem is that Fear are bestowed by Eru. If Orcs were corrupted Elves they would retain their Fea, but what about Orc children? Why would Eru give them souls if the only possible destiny for them was to be evil - or could Eru create Evil souls just or Orcs?

A second possibility would be that second generation Orcs do not have Fear, merely Hroar & Sana (ie, as well as a body they have a mind but no soul). But is this actually possible?

I suppose we could speculate that in place of a Fea, a motivating 'force' if you will, an orc would be 'powered' by the will of first Morgoth, then Sauron. So, rather than the tri-partite division we see in Elves & Men: Fea-Sana-Hroa, in Orcs we would have 'Evil Will of Morgoth/Sauron'-Sana-Hroa.

This would mean that Orcs would be quite sentient & completely self aware, able to reason (& rebel) but that in a real sense they were not truly 'alive', as the 'Life-force' in them would not have its origins in Eru, but in the will of Morgoth/Sauron.

03-31-2006, 04:03 PM	#44
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,256	The central problem is that Fear are bestowed by Eru. If Orcs were corrupted Elves they would retain their Fea, but what about Orc children? Why would Eru give them souls if the only possible destiny for them was to be evil - or could Eru create Evil souls just or Orcs? A second possibility would be that second generation Orcs do not have Fear, merely Hroar & Sana (ie, as well as a body they have a mind but no soul). But is this actually possible? I suppose we could speculate that in place of a Fea, a motivating 'force' if you will, an orc would be 'powered' by the will of first Morgoth, then Sauron. So, rather than the tri-partite division we see in Elves & Men: Fea-Sana-Hroa, in Orcs we would have 'Evil Will of Morgoth/Sauron'-Sana-Hroa. This would mean that Orcs would be quite sentient & completely self aware, able to reason (& rebel) but that in a real sense they were not truly 'alive', as the 'Life-force' in them would not have its origins in Eru, but in the will of Morgoth/Sauron. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."