RD-EX-54: I am not adamnat on this. If you really think it is out of line here, we can skip it.
The Hunt: The death of Thingol is easier to be understood with the hunt included: If he is huntig, he is outside his strong hold, he is away from most of his warriors, he is away from Melian. Beside that the only details that we have about his death and how the curse of Mîm took a part in it, are from an outside place, not from inside Menegroth (even so we know that the caves had a rebuild naturalistic look). As the Hunt is never really contradicted, but only leftout possibly due to compression, I think the above mentioned reason might be enough to keep the hunt.
Arvegil145: Your sequence can work, but I don't see evidence to incould it in our text.
RD-SL-08: Okay, if the outlaws are unable to compromise, what about this edditing:
Quote:
:§288 (§17b) RD-EX-20.1 <TN Now therefore did those of {Úrin}[Húrin]'s band murmur,> {The}the outlaws, released from the presence of Húrin, claimed that it was theirs, won by their weapons and labour.{ Fighting broke out, even in the inviolable halls of Thingol.}RD-SL-08c <TN {and}And one said to the king: 'Lo, lord, our captain {Úrin}[Húrin], an old man and mad, has departed, but we have no mind to forego our gain.'
RD-EX-20.11<TN, move from below Now were the Elves of the wood in turn displeased, who long had stood nigh gazing on the gold.> Then said {Tinwelint}[Thingol] for neither was he untouched by the golden spell: ‘Nay then, know ye not that this gold belongs to the kindred of the Elves in common, for the {Rodothlim}[Noldor] who won it from the earth long time ago are no more, and no one has especial claim' to so much as a handful save only {Úrin}[Húrin] by reason of his son Túrin, who slew the Worm, the robber of the Elves; yet Túrin is dead and {Úrin}[Húrin] will have none of it; and Túrin was my man.{’}
(§19) {At those words the outlaws fell into great wrath, until the king said: }‘Get ye now gone, and seek not O foolish ones to quarrel with the Elves of the forest, lest death or the dread enchantments of Valinor find you in the woods. Neither revile ye the name of {Tinwelint}[Thingol] their king, for I will reward you richly enough for your travail and the bringing of the gold. Let each one now approach and take what he may grasp with either hand, and then depart in peace.’
§290 (§20) {Now were the Elves of the wood in turn displeased, who long had stood nigh gazing on the gold; but the wild folk did as they were bid, and yet more, for some went into the hoard twice and thrice, and angry cries were raised in that hall. Then would the woodland Elves hinder them of their thieving, and a great dissension arose, so that though the king would stay them none heeded him. Then did those outlaws}RD-EX-20.12 <TN, moved from above At those words the outlaws fell into great wrath,> [u]and[/b] being fierce and fearless folk draw swords and deal blows about them, so {that}RD-EX-20.13 <TN, moved from above even though the king would stay them none heeded him, and> soon there was a great fight even upon the steps of the high-seat of the king.
Doughty were those outlaws and great wielders of sword and axe from their warfare with Orcs, so that many were slain ere the king, seeing that peace and pardon might no longer be, summoned a host of his warriors, and those outlaws RD-EX-20.2{being wildered with the stronger magics of the king' and }confused in the dark ways of the halls of {Tinwelint}[Thingol] were all slain fighting bitterly; but the king's hall ran with gore, and the gold that lay before his throne, scattered and spurned by trampling feet, was drenched with blood. Thus did the curse of Mîm the Dwarf RD-EX-20.25b begin its course; and yet another sorrow sown by the {Noldoli}[Noldor] of old in Valinor was come to fruit.
Then were the bodies of the RD-EX-20.3{outlaws cast forth, but the woodland Elves that were }slain {Tinwelint let bury}buried nigh to the knoll of Tinúviel,> RD-EX-20.4<Q30 and the howe wherein they were laid in Doriath was named {Cum-nan-Arasaith,} the Mound of Avarice.>
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I had to change the sequence of the sentences a bit, to have Thingol trying to keep peace, but beeing denied by the outlaws.
{gold}[silver]: You think that the complete hoard of Nargothrond should be more silver than gold? That would make sense in many places in our text. But in the end the Ascar is named 'Goldenbed' not 'Silverbed'. So gold has to remain ar considerable part of the hoard.
About the hunting down of the Petty-Dwarves as grievance for the Dwarves of Nogrod: I agree fully to Aiwendil here. It is one thing to have a feud among your own people, but if some one from outside does kill them is another matter. And anyhow it is Tolkien telling us about this in the same mix of interrests (First pushing the Petty-Dwarves out of Ered luin, than the Grey-Elves hunting Petty-Dwarves, the Dwarves of Ered Luin builing up good buisness with the Grey-Elves and helping Felagund to build Nargothrond and by that pushing the Petty-Dwarves out of their home, and then at last searching for some propaganda-reason to fight with Thingol, when the real intention is just to get the Hoard.) The same goes for the violent death of Mîm. It is just propaganda for Naugladur. And in thi scase it can even be seen easily: Mîm was killed and robbed by Húrin and his Men, but the revenge that Naugladur plans is on Thingol.
By the way: Since we hear now that Mîm was not of the kin of Nogrod, but we now that the Petty-Dwarves were driven from the mansions in the Ered Luin, we can now be sure that it was from Belegost that they had come. We could guess that before, since the news of Mîm's death reached Belegost first, but hear we have now a confirmation.
Respectfully
Findegil