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Old 09-29-2004, 07:57 AM   #16
davem
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethberry
Of course the storm on Caradhras is very different. As Aiwendil says, it is evidence of how the geography of Middle-earth is a separate entity and personality which the races must learn to accomodate. Yet at the same time it seems also to me evidence of the 'fallen' nature of Middle-earth. The peoples of Middle-earth are not in an earthly paradise but struggle in a land whic does not serve their bidding or their needs. They are alienated.
Its certainly interesting to speculate on how far Tolkien had gone down the road to the idea of 'Morgoth's Ring' at this stage. Had he formulated the idea that Middle earth had been infected by an external evil in the form of Morgoth's malice yet, or was it more a case of 'the world, the flesh & the devil' - ie, the material world, matter itself, is a source of evil?

Seen in the context of the later idea, we could see Morgoth's malice deliberately targetting the Fellowship, but this isn't what comes across to me - nor does any feeling of Middle earth being 'evil' - its more that it has its own 'desires', its own emotions, almost, anger, pain, joy, etc, & it seems that it is most at peace in places where Elves dwell, or once dwelled, which simply emphasises their relationship with nature.

Quote:
I cannot help but wonder why the Fellowship had to delay so long. Was it really necessary for Elrond to send out messengers to attempt to track down the Ringwraths? Was the two month delay crucially necessary? The messengers passed freely over mountains unencumbered by winter storms. How would the discovery of any Wraiths surviving in form and body have changed the plans to destroy the Ring in Mount Doom?
My own understanding is that they had to make sure all the Nazgul had been completely 'disembodied', which would force their return to Mordor, as they could not 're-embody' themselves. It seems, though I may be wrong, that only Sauron could provide them with the means to function, to have any presence at all, in the physical realm.

So, it was necessary to ensure that they were no longer physically present in the world (outside Mordor). CT points out that the 'shadow' which passed across the stars in this chapter couldn't have been one of the Nazgul, as they had not yet crossed the River - which implies that at that point, while the Fellowship were journeying south, the Nazgul were still in Mordor or its environs.

Of course, I could be completely wrong in these speculations!
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