[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Every time I read this chapter I find his treatment of Gollum a little more off-putting, basically everything from the torture to the loathing way he talks about him. He implies Gollum deserves Frodo's pity, yet he has very little pity for Gollum himself. Also, Gandalf isn't exactly known for "the end justifies the means" attitude - that's more Saruman's cup of tea - but when I think of him and Gollum, I think maybe he should be.

It certainly sounds quite scary there, what he does to Gollum. What does "I put the fear of fire on him" mean, anyway? Gandalf is being awfully vague, that is most certainly not a normal expression and I would like to know what he means there. Somehow I don't think it just means picking up a torch and waving it menacingly. It feels like something... deeper.

When I read this now, I have been also thinking that the expression reminds me of something else, something creepy someone else does, maybe some Ringwraith later on. Then I realised: it reminded me of what happens to the squint-eyed Southerner in one of the versions of the Hunt for the Ring in the Unfinished Tales. When running an errand for Saruman, he stumbles upon the Nazgul who are riding North, and they question him, learn where the Shire is, learn that Saruman is a double-crosser and afterwards, they "reprogram" this Saruman's agent and send him to Bree where he teams up with Bill Ferny. The phrase I am interested in, however, is:

Originally Posted by The Unfinished Tales

[The Witch-King] put therefore the Shadow of Fear on the Dunlending, and sent him on to Bree as an agent.

Super-creepy, right after some awful mind-torture, and just the fact that I am even able to connect this with what Gandalf did to Gollum does not shed very good light on Mr. Scary Wizard. Huh. *shudders*

Originally Posted by Lommy

Gandalf also stresses that the Ring had so little power over Bilbo because his first deed as a Ringbearer stemmed of pity.

Now this made me think, what was Frodo's first significant deed wearing the Ring? I think of Weathertop and stabbing the Witch-King. Is that why Frodo had such a difficult relationship with the Ring? But Frodo act courageously and in self-defense, in Elbereth's name and against the Dark Powers. It's hard to think of that as a bad thing.

Tsk-tsk. I can think of at least one earlier one: in the Barrow. His friends are lying there, seemingly dead, he wakes up, and he thinks that he could run away, imagines himself being free and grieving for them, but being alive. Then he decides not to. Actually, now that I said it, it feels much more so like a parallel to Bilbo's "first deed", isn't it? There is a similar moral dilemma present, similar feel. I don't know if that was intentional parallel - it is still quite a well-hidden episode, as we can see for example just from the fact that you forgot about it, and I think you wouldn't be alone (even though PJ and company are surely partly responsible for this)... but in any case, a parallel it is.

And, of course, it points towards Frodo's future choices, and indeed, his whole journey: it is about self-sacrifice, about sticking with his friends (or not - it is also a reversal of his future choice at Amon Hen where he does choose to abandon his friends - in order to protect them. Again).

Originally Posted by Lommy

Lastly, a small thing. Did Gollum really eat human babies?!

And animal babies. But yes, Frodo's disgust with Gollum after hearing the story is perfectly understandable then - and he voices the disgust repeatedly, I have noticed this time, almost a bit too many times one might think, but under these circumstances, quite appropriately.