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Old 09-11-2021, 12:56 PM   #4
Boromir88
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It's probably been going on about a year since I did the same thing...read the books again, re-watched the films, and this was a scene/moment in the book that caught my attention as well.

I suppose there needed to be the decision to either film this moment or not. And once making the decision to film it, I'm glad they did, even though as you said PJ portrayed it differently. I was writing my opinions of this on Facebook, so after tracking that post down, I'll just copy and paste to add here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myself
I will conclude this part with another bit involving Bilbo. I was going to put the picture of "Demonic face Bilbo" because that remains one of the scariest single moments in a movie for me. It's well done, but I don't want to give anyone nightmares. Anyway "Demonic Bilbo" when he asks Frodo to see the Ring again in Rivendell, from what I remember was not liked by a lot of Tolkien fans. The criticism being Jackson was reverting to his days as a cheap-scare horror director, because Bilbo undergoes no physical change in the books. It is all from Frodo's perspective what "seems to happen" to Bilbo's face. Again, I must respectfully disagree on this one. Movies have to rely on visuals, so if they do include that scene from the books how do you visually portray Frodo's perception of the change that comes over Bilbo when seeing the ring? I mean you can not include it at all, but I'm definitely glad it was! I see it as I was being placed in Frodo's shoes, seeing it through Frodo's eyes. Even if that's not the literal shot. However, we do see Frodo's reaction to "Demonic Bilbo" and experience what Frodo does when seeing what the Ring does to a previous Ring-bearer. And like Frodo, I was terrified. Terrified seeing what happened to this kind and adored character (played perfectly by Ian Holm) who was reading captivating tales to hobbit children about his adventures.
I never thought about it from your take:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf
Now I think that this is not what really happens. When I try to ignore evil-face film Bilbo, who manages to jump-scare Frodo and the audience alike, and focus on the way the passage is written, it is much more plausible to me that it really isn't about how much the Ring has changed Bilbo to this day, but about how it already changed Frodo in a horrible way: I would suggests that Frodo's vision of this little wrinkled creature is a Ring-induced hallucination or a change of Frodo's perspective, so to speak and not something that is happening to Bilbo in a physical sense.
I agree that Bilbo doesn't go through any physical changes, but never considered the meaning not only shows how Bilbo still desires the Ring, but how the Ring has also changed Frodo. Frodo is filled with a desire to "strike" the "little, wrinkled creature." I would say that is the Ring urging Frodo to strike Bilbo, because that doesn't seem like a Frodo-thing to do. Maybe Frodo remembers this moment when he sees and pities Gollum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf
Ultimately, the scene does get the broader point across, but loses some of the nuance, I think.
That is generally my thoughts about Peter Jackson's LOTR movies. As movies I enjoyed them, and still do, but all art is subjective and they're not going to be everyone's cup of tea. As adaptations, on the surface they seem to convey the broader picture, but scratch the surface just a bit and they miss the point entirely.
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