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**lindil** · 03-01-2012, 02:21 PM

excellent thread folks - we have so little data about the north compared to Gondor...

Curiously no one has mentioned the town a few miles from the barrow Downs BREE!

However - it seems clear that the dunedain never populated or seriously encroached on it - leaving the non-numenorean/hobbit population to it's own devices.

Why the burial mounds would be next door to Bree? Perhaps the mounds were erected after a particularly devastating battle. Easier [less rotting - to put it bluntly] to build tombs than move them down road hundreds of miles, seems one possible answer.

re: Tharbad as Cardolanian chief city and final public outpost of the Dunedain.

The Dunedain were very much preservers, as far as they could, and Tharbad had been established as an early 'crossroads', never thought about the math that puts it's final abandonment to bilbo's 21st year - excellent data point.

It would have had ancient buildings, close[r] contact both with Gondor, Rohan and even the more civilized Dunlendings and was probably 'The City' for all the wild lands surrounding it - even maybe for the Druedain fisherfolk on the coast , so it almost certainly was the chief city if not outright [if such things needed to be formalized] 'capital'. By Bilbo's day it would have been the ONLY Numenorean inhabited City/Town in the North that was not secret.

There is no doubt a direct relation between the waning Tharbad and the [upstream by 150 miles or so] 'Hidden Fastness' of the remaining Dunedain of the North at the Angle of the Loudwater and Hoarwell Rivers - and the Fell Winter's abandonment of Tharbad due to decimation of an already dwindling population. Tharbad still would have been monitored by the rangers just as sarn ford was and bree as an obvious entry into Eriador.

One can imagine the despair and sorrow the Dundeain of the North would have felt no longer even having a post office for Gondor to leave a message at [since they clearly did not know where Imladris was] though the Ringwraiths did as they abandoned their last decaying outpost and town and retreated upriver to a private village close on exactly 1/2 way between rivendell and Tharbad. Since it was in Rhudaur, the hidden fastness was quite possibly nothing more than a ranger/refugee camp grown permanent. maybe becoming the barrows for the Re-United Kingdom...

In light of this one sees how provincial even Butterbur had become, forgetting what must have been know 2 or 3 generations before that the Rangers guarded the North, and had some kind of direct Authority in Tharbad - which must have been known as 'the city to the south'.

Some of Aragorns scorn could then be credited to his bitterness that Mordor was known to Butterbur but he 'did not know' where rangers hailed from, though surely his grandfather would have had some idea.

03-01-2012, 02:21 PM	#24
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	tharbad, the hidden fastness and the waning of the dunedain of the north excellent thread folks - we have so little data about the north compared to Gondor... Curiously no one has mentioned the town a few miles from the barrow Downs BREE! However - it seems clear that the dunedain never populated or seriously encroached on it - leaving the non-numenorean/hobbit population to it's own devices. Why the burial mounds would be next door to Bree? Perhaps the mounds were erected after a particularly devastating battle. Easier [less rotting - to put it bluntly] to build tombs than move them down road hundreds of miles, seems one possible answer. re: Tharbad as Cardolanian chief city and final public outpost of the Dunedain. The Dunedain were very much preservers, as far as they could, and Tharbad had been established as an early 'crossroads', never thought about the math that puts it's final abandonment to bilbo's 21st year - excellent data point. It would have had ancient buildings, close[r] contact both with Gondor, Rohan and even the more civilized Dunlendings and was probably 'The City' for all the wild lands surrounding it - even maybe for the Druedain fisherfolk on the coast , so it almost certainly was the chief city if not outright [if such things needed to be formalized] 'capital'. By Bilbo's day it would have been the ONLY Numenorean inhabited City/Town in the North that was not secret. There is no doubt a direct relation between the waning Tharbad and the [upstream by 150 miles or so] 'Hidden Fastness' of the remaining Dunedain of the North at the Angle of the Loudwater and Hoarwell Rivers - and the Fell Winter's abandonment of Tharbad due to decimation of an already dwindling population. Tharbad still would have been monitored by the rangers just as sarn ford was and bree as an obvious entry into Eriador. One can imagine the despair and sorrow the Dundeain of the North would have felt no longer even having a post office for Gondor to leave a message at [since they clearly did not know where Imladris was] though the Ringwraiths did as they abandoned their last decaying outpost and town and retreated upriver to a private village close on exactly 1/2 way between rivendell and Tharbad. Since it was in Rhudaur, the hidden fastness was quite possibly nothing more than a ranger/refugee camp grown permanent. maybe becoming the barrows for the Re-United Kingdom... In light of this one sees how provincial even Butterbur had become, forgetting what must have been know 2 or 3 generations before that the Rangers guarded the North, and had some kind of direct Authority in Tharbad - which must have been known as 'the city to the south'. Some of Aragorns scorn could then be credited to his bitterness that Mordor was known to Butterbur but he 'did not know' where rangers hailed from, though surely his grandfather would have had some idea. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.