[Gothmog, LoB]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Deferred often to her? He wore the pants? Do you actually think he did anything without her consent? I mean, really, think about Celeborn's situation. You are married to the most powerful Noldorin Elf left in Middle-earth, born before Ungoliant and the destruction of the Two Trees, who, by the way, learned arcane secrets at the feet of Melian the Maia, oh, and who just happened to wield one of the Three Rings of Power, and also had enough innate power to destroy Dol Guldur single-handedly - after the One Ring was destroyed and the Three lost their power. There is enough information in the books that implied coequal rule within Lothlorien, but outside the bounds of that land she was one of a handful known as the Wise and a leader of the Free Peoples. There are three Ringbearers, Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel, who were the most prominent. No one gave a Ring to Celeborn.

Well, if you put it like that you really make the man look like a clown in comparison to her. But we should keep in mind that he was at least as old as she was, and presumably resided with her in Doriath (or was there even before she came across the sea).

Now, I don't know what version of Celeborn's origin you prefer, but in any version that is not the original Nando version - which is the one actually used in the text of LotR when Galadriel remarks that she came to Celeborn - he certainly has the chance to be a wise guy in his own right.

He wouldn't have as much Noldo knowledge from the Valar, but he also had the chance to learn stuff from Thingol and Melian.

He had to do something. Think how embarrassing his situation would be if Galadriel also led the armies, in addition to protecting Lothlorien under her mantle. There's a reason the Fellowship felt a drastic change in weather once they entered those enchanted woods.

That is one way to see it. I'd say it is improper for a woman in Tolkien's world/mindset to lead an army, regardless how much power she actually wielded. She simply couldn't do that, and that puts the actual visible/political power back in Celeborn's hands.

You make it sound like all she did was get out a scrub brush and a bucket to spiffy up Dol Guldur. The exact line is "threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed."

I know that. I don't want to make Galadriel appear weak. I know she is very powerful.

A king would have say so in regards to political alliances outside his realm, yes? Galadriel handled that, not Celeborn.

Hm. That alliance between the Greenwood elves and Lórien was made by Celeborn and Thranduil. Galadriel isn't mentioned. Whether the White Council was some sort of political body is questionable, too. We don't really know what that was besides a debating society for the Wise who claimed to keep a watchful eye on Sauron and his servants (they seemed to have done a very awful job at that considering that it took centuries before one of them decided to investigate Dol Guldur personally, not to mention that none of them actually ever attacked the place or urged Gondor to do so).

I'm also not sure whether Galadriel actually convened the meetings. We know she instigated the formation of the council but that doesn't mean she was in charge. Saruman was, after he had been elected, and the fact that he was also indicates that Galadriel's influence wasn't that great. We also know that the meeting in TA 2851 was in Imladris, so one could assume that Elrond also had the authority to convene a meeting (or at least invite the other guys to join him). The meeting before the attack on Dol Guldur was most likely in Lórien considering that this would have been closest it, but we don't know that for a certainty. It could also have been at Isengard.

“And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!”

How does Celeborn fit in there? Is he mentioned? He's the "King" supposedly (they are referred to as Lord and Lady, which doesn't necessarily imply one has precedence over the other), shouldn't Galadriel dutifully hand her sovereign the Ring, since he "wears the pants"? What part would Celeborn play if Galadriel actually took the Ring? My guess would be a hasty divorce in Las Vegas, and if he survived, exile in the Dead Marshes.

That's actually a very interesting quote. Especially the last part. It illustrates how Tolkien imagined Galadriel as Dark Lord would have ruled. As a femme fatale, a woman who would have subdued and dominated anyone in Middle-earth by the power of her beauty, basically. There is no mentioning of the strength of her armies, the power of her mind, or the sharpness of her sword. Just compare that to the Song about Gil-galad or ask yourself how Gandalf would have been described as Dark Lord. Nobody would have said that 'all shall love him and despair'.

I actually assume that a Dark Lord Galadriel would actually still have had Celeborn to do the manly stuff for her. Sure, she would have sat on a throne and her word would have been law, and all. But Celeborn would have led her armies and would have done the manly stuff.

Galadriel's temptation clearly is political power and rule, and I really think her character (development) greatly suffers from Tolkien's late attempt to make her holier (and Celeborn her companion since Aman is irreconcilable with all the established facts about Celeborn). And I think part of Galadriel's sins could also be seen in the fact that she wants to rule over men in a way she is not supposed to. This is not touched upon directly, of course.