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Originally Posted by Huinesoron
I have to think it was on their minds when they planned what became the Nirnaeth, though. "Manwe's eagles helped us at the gates of Angband - Manwe's eagles helped Beren and Luthien escape with a Silmaril - what if he'll help us out again if we make a proper go of it?" And in the event... no. No eagles, not to any of the people who'd previously been aided by them (Maedhros, Fingon, Hurin, and Huor were all at the battle!).
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OMG. I have never realized this before. This is... mindtwisting. And it makes the disappointment of the Nirnaeth so much more personal for Maedhros. I wonder if that's what pushes him over the edge to the point where he allows himself to be convinced by his jerk of a brother to proceed with the Second Kinslaying - or even what lays the seeds of bitterness and mistrust that prompts him to reject Eonwe's summons and attempt to steal the Silmarils after they are recovered? "I thought that perhaps you were not so coldhearted, and would help us in a righteous cause, I thought you sent us a sign that we should have hope - but that was
so false hope and wishful thinking..." Oh. My. God.
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Originally Posted by Hui
I agree. It's a lovely intro, but not for this song. We're coming off the back of a slam-cut to black at the end of Aria, and into the very gentle camp trio. Checking V1, Finrod even drops his reprise of "Oath" into a melancholy tone, and that's probably the highest-energy part of the trio. (In many ways, the three songs together serve as a sort of Enteract: Act 1 is the Kingdoms of Light, Act 2 is the Kingdoms of Dark - Tol-in-Gaurhoth and Fallen Nargothrond - and these three are the breathing space between.) So yeah - pocket it for Showdown, and try for something gentler for Dream if you can.
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Yeah, exactly. I like the intro and I think will keep it for Showdown, but here is a more
languidly dreamy one for Dream. Yea or nay?
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Originally Posted by Hui
Soooo. How many times does she use that line?
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...A lot. O.o
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Originally Posted by Hui
... can we just steal that "follow love" version? She does literally say "love is leading me", so it makes logical sense. Or if we don't want the love:
And I will seek what is and always has been mine!
Google thinks the Russian is "And I will win back what belongs to me." So maybe we do need 'fight'. I think you're right to sneak in another verb.
And I will fight to hold once more [/again] that which is mine!
Or even claim once more (take once more?); in Showdown she uses a very possessive "give me back", so this isn't out of place.
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In Russian it's "win back", but even... "win back in battle/fight". "War back"? I suppose the idea is that this is her taking a stance - against Thingol and the rest of the world if need be. I actually don't like the Russian word, I think it's too aggressive for Luthien. After all, Beren is the warrior here, she's the enchantress. But the English "fight" is perfect - it's just vague enough that she still asserts that she is taking this into her hands and preparing to take on whatever challenges arise, and it still foreshadows her more literal fights with Sauron and Morgoth, but without the militaristic feel.
So, saying that... I think my favourite is "
I will fight to hold/claim once more that which is mine!".
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Originally Posted by Huinesoron
Been a while since I've drawn a complete picture for this, but I've just finished the woodland backdrop for Camp. I looked at the map, and decided that Stuff It, it's going to be Brethil, because silver birch is a fun tree.
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I
love the birch trees! Brethil or no, they are wonderful! (But good to know that we are actually still very much in canonical land.
)
...And I totally missed when you posted the edit, and only saw them now, and -
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Originally Posted by Hui
EDIT: So I was thinking about how Dream fits into the show, and I realised that the V2 staging has tricked me into thinking it's a Beren song. It's not! It's Luthien's, and it's a direct response to the Aria. Thingol stealing the mic is an analogue of him imprisoning Luthien up in a tree (and I believe Melian wasn't keen on that, either!); Dream stands in the place of her escape.
To do that, it blends in her vision of Beren in Tol Sirion, pulling it forward in her timeline and backwards in his. In fact I don't think Luthien has a vision here: it's all Beren's. "Still Beren dreams that thou dost sing", as Melian said in the Lay, and though the context is different it's still the case.
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I think it's a BOTH song, to be fair. The set up is Beren dreaming about Luthien, but her part is indeed her leaving Doriath as a direct response (foreseeable conequence?) to the two previous pieces. "And she will follow only him" - as, indeed, she does. But then Beren starts singing and it's like he's glimpsing Luthien far away in a dream, without realizing what she's singing, only knowing that she is there, because he thinks that he's seeing a vision of her from the past, from before Thingol caught word of them ("that night when in your love I rejoiced"). I agree, it didn't sound to me like Luthien really has a vision in this song, but if we wanted to make it about dreams on both sides it wouldn't be wrong to link it to her dreaming that Beren is (will be?) in trouble. The Zong timeline seems to be a little different from the Sil/Lay timeline, I suppose to make the songs flow and integrate better. Or, can it still be stretched, as you say, as pushing one dream forward and one backward in time?
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Originally Posted by Hui
The upshot of all this is: Dream will open with Luthien alone in Doriath. Beren and his arches will only fade in later, because I don't have to worry about moving him onto a real stage.
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Ah, the beauty of online musicalling! ^.^