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Old 04-03-2020, 03:36 PM   #2
Huinesoron
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Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Huinesoron is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
As it happens, I have The Peoples of Middle-earth to hand (I know! The first time anyone's ever admitted to Having The Books Right Now), and it contains a very pertinent quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoME XII: Last Writings - Glorfindel
When Glorfindel of Gondolin was slain his spirit would according to the laws established by the One be obliged at once to return to the land of the Valar. Then he would go to Mandos and be judged, and would then remain in the 'Halls of Waiting' until Manwe [sic ~hS] granted him release. Elves were destined to be 'immortal', that is not to die within the unknown limits decreed by the One, which at the most could be until the end of the life of the Earth as a habitable realm. Their death - by any injury to their bodies so severe that it could not be healed - and the disembodiment of their spirits was an 'unnatural' and grievous matter. It was therefore the duty of the Valar, by command of the One, to restore them to incarnate life, if they desired it. But this 'restoration' could be delayed by Manwe [Footnote: or in the gravest cases (such as that of Feanor) withheld and referred to the One], if the fea while alive had done evil deeds and refused to repent of them, or still harboured any malice against any other person among the living.
So far as I can tell, this is Tolkien's final explicit comment on the matter, and it's pretty clear: Mandos judges the incoming spirits, and seems to give his recommendation to Manwe. In all but 'the gravest' cases, they would be released as soon as they had fully repented of all their misdeeds and rid themselves of any malice towards others. The 'gravest cases' were referred to the One, and I believe the only known examples are Feanor and Team Luthien.

But.

Tolkien goes on to hint at a more complicated view, in the continuation of the same passage:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoME XII: Last Writings - Glorfindel
Now Glorfindel of Gondolin was one of the exiled Noldor, rebels against the authority of Manwe, and they were all under a ban imposed by him: they could not return in bodily form to the Blessed Realm. Manwe, however, was not bound by his own ordinances, and being still the supreme ruler of the Kingdom of Arda could set them aside, when he saw fit. ... it can be assumed that, though [Glorfindel] left Valinor in the host of Turgon, and so incurred the ban, he did so reluctantly because of kinship with Turgon[!!! ~hS] and allegiance to him, and had no part in the kinslaying of Alqualonde.

More important: Glorfindel had sacrificed his life in defending the fugitives from the wreck of Gondolin against a Demon out of Thangorodrim, and so enabling Tuor and Idril... and their child Earendil to escape, and seek refuge at the Mouths of Sirion. Though he cannot have known the importance of this (and would have defended them even had they been fugitives of any rank), this deed was of vital importance to the designs of the Valar. It is therefore entirely in keeping with the general design of The Silmarillion to describe the subsequent history of Glorfindel thus. After his purging of any guilt that he had incurred in the rebellion, he was released from Mandos, and Manwe restored him. He then became again a living incarnate person, but was permitted to dwell in the Blessed Realm; for he had regained the primitive innocence and grace of the Eldar.

[...] Glorfindel remained in the Blessed Realm, no doubt at first by his own choice: Gondolin was destroyed, and all his kin had perished, and were still in the Halls of Waiting unapproachable by the living.
So it seems that in the specific case of the Exiles, Manwe made an exception to the rule of 'free as soon as you're healed', and just... kept them all down there through at least to the mid Second Age (known exceptions: Finrod, Glorfindel).

This can actually be perfectly reconciled with the main description by reading 'if the fea while alive had done evil deeds and refused to repent of them' as indicating that they had to repent of them while alive, but I don't know how I feel about that idea. It's a very Christian notion, so it might be what Tolkien was aiming at... perhaps the best resolution is that 'evil deeds' means more than just 'anything bad': it means seriously bad stuff.

And indeed, the first version of this passage says that they would be restored 'unless for some grave (and rare) reason: such as deeds of great evil, or any works of malice of which they remained obdurately unrepentant.'

Combining all the above, I think we get a pretty clear picture: if you did malicious (but not capital-Evil) things in life, you stay in until you repent. If you still feel malice towards anyone, you stay in until you get over it. And if you did a Great Evil, and didn't repent in life, you don't get out (and might be referred to the One).

'Repent', in the last instance (as in at least some branches of Christianity), refers not just to feeling sorry about it, but making amends - in the case of the Ban, that means actively progressing the plans of the Valar. Glorfindel did this by helping Earendil escape; Finrod did it by protecting Beren and thus enabling the rescue of the Silmaril. And Galadriel, while not dead, seems to have overcome the Ban by not taking the Ring, but sending it on its way to destruction.

So to answer your question: was it a Great Evil? If not, they probably get to repent in the Halls. If so, they'd better have tried to fix it while they were alive - or hope Mandos is feeling merciful today.

hS
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