View Single Post
Old 09-20-2020, 09:52 AM   #269
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,299
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
First things first -


Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
After a busy morning's work, I have a completed draft video for Captivity!

I feel ill at ease about that purported minstrel...
Yessssss!!! I love it! It's so good! I watched it several times now. The whole thing is flipping fantastic. It made me really happy. I love the Faithful, and how they disappear one by one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
I would appreciate any notes on the volume balance, because I think it wanders badly. Also any points where I've wandered off-key. Also, this is only 20 slides, so is nice and easy to update at need.
I like the volume. Whatever it does, it makes sense with the music, which also gets louder and quieter.

I think the only off-key place that really needs a second take is Finrod's "I've been a proud king" section, because it's several notes on a prominent stretch of melody. Possibly Sauron's "I feel ill at ease --> fell", which has a couple of spots. Otherwise, nothing major. I like both your Finrod and your Sauron.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
I was also thinking about the lyrics while uploading it... how would you feel about switching Finrod to singing The price I pay, my honour to retain? I don't think it changes the meaning any, just cleans it up a little.
Sure!

A question - how easy would it be to insert/replace the vocals? And in what format (ie do you want me to send the Audacity again, or mp3s?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
So it's the same as the diamond dust that covered Earendil?
Uhh, I am not sure. But is there anything else that he can be talking of (except the more metaphorical "I see goodness and hope in life again")? In Russian, there are no heights, not for him or for Melian, and at that point in time I wasn't sure what Finrod was referencing, again aside from the metaphorical seeing hope and beauty in life again. But once we've added the heights, that gave an extra detail with potential for an additional interpretation. Could he be talking about Valinor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
It's okay, I didn't realise either. ^_^ I think it does scan - I've just sung it through as 'in-HEEER-it'rs, which is how I'd naturally sing it anyway - but we'll see how it fits when we get that far I guess?

The line that really threw me was the golden dust one, actually - it seemed to fall as "THE gol-den DUST is SHI-ning", which sounds weird. I'll have a poke at it sometime.
Okay, inheritors it is for now... hopefully still rhyming with "ever" and not sticking out too awkwardly.

I like the golden heights line, it's one of my favourites in that song! I read it as "a GOL-den DUST is SHI-ning", which is how I would say it if I was just talking normally. Maybe when I attempt to synch the choir today, I will record this snippet as well to see how it sounds.


Now, the Lyric Party - Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Any who stand in our way will be cast at our side to the dark we court! --> And any...?
Whatever you prefer, whatever sings best. I don't feel too strongly about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Waves of the Sea --> Waves of the Great Sea?
Sure; and how about 'Breath of the West Wind'?
---
One by one, the oath-bound warriors fall --> ALL the oath-bound?
I actually want "seven oath-bound"; I was never happy to drop the 'seven' from the next line. And I think it parses: "one by one, the seven fell, until only two remained".
--
For the Oath's sake I forsook my own home, braving the Sea and bitter Cold
"Braved the Great Sea".
---
But mysterious still --> scans and rhymes a bit awkwardly. How about "But greatest/strangest of all lore"?
"But greater than my lore". With the added bonus that in my accent, that could also be "my Law", and it was Beren's appeal that caused Finrod to set aside his rule.
Yeeees! Except "West" makes a better rhyme with "Witness". But I think it still works with "Wind".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
I know exactly how to make this good / If you bring my daughter back at once

How about:

I know a perfect way to fix this up
If you bring my daughter back at once
I will promise her in marriage
To whoever gives Beren the shove.
I like the rhyme! The first line is still one syllable over, but it can scan. I'm putting it in for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Can turn our lives from shadowed journey
I'll put in 'shield your realm' here for now, but I'm not positive it fits with 'journey'.
Good point. I will think about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
And I will fight for that which always has been mine! --> And I will fight for that which is and has been mine?

Um. I've tried to avoid 'has been', because I don't think it says as much. This line could scan as To fight for that which is and always has been mine, but that takes away the declarative statement.
That kind of makes it sound like Luthien only awoke to fight, as opposed to awakening and finding something that she is willing to fight for. How about flipping tenses the other way, then? "And I will fight for that which always will be mine"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Then I will kiss the ground where he lies still... --> On this one, I always have to remind myself which meaning of "still" it's supposed to be.

Well, that might be intentional ('he's still there' and 'he's not moving' both make sense!), but point taken on the rhyme. I think I thought it rhymed with still/fell. where he once stood.
But he's not still there, or lying undisturbed - isn't that the point of Cel/Cur's previous line?

...Ooooh, wait. I've been mixing up the Russian and English lyrics again, they come in a different order. In Russian it's "your friend perished, there are no news of him" - "I want to see the grave in which he lies" - "he must have become carrion-fodder" - "I will kiss the ground where he fell/died". That sequence makes it sound like there is no final resting place for Beren's body, he's been eaten by crows and wolves and whatnot, and not "still" there. And then I read again the English, and realized that the logic of the conversation doesn't match up the same way / in the same order, and... Sorry for the confusion. :-o

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Your throne will crumble into ash -- another weak alternative for rhyme: Into the dust your throne will sink...

Is it meant to rhyme with 'king'? I'm toying with something about swords ringing, but it might run a bit far afield.
It's supposed to rhyme with "King", but not at the price of sacrificing the power of that line. And you already had "ring" for Thingol's stanza. :-( I am not too set on fixing this one, to be honest - just fiddling around with it to see if we've exhausted the options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
And in the dust the gold did shine! -- is this enough of a parallel to "golden dust is shining in the heights"? Or would it be better if "heights" was on there as well? But then either "dust" or "gold" has to go, I can't find a way to fit all 3 nouns into this phrase.

If we're definitely linking this to Tirion and Earendil, something like 'In diamond dust the gold did shine' might work. But I think it draws the link as is.
Yeah, I am not sure to what extent Valinor is present in this instance, as opposed to the broader meaning. In any case, I would argue that here "dust" is really meant to be plain dust, in which the precious material shines. I think I would leave it as is, unless we're inserting diamonds into the other place as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Light and dark can both be damned! -- if you really want the abyss reference, there's "Abyss may swallow light and dark".

It would be "To the Abyss with Light and Dark", but I really like this line as is, so unless you feel very strongly I'd like to keep it.
Nah, keep it. Again, just fiddling around with it for fiddling sake.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
They don't name Luthien?! Good grief... I mean, we could go back and rework these parts if need be. 'Morgoth' appears only four times, after all, and the only 'Luthien' is when we quoted Tolkien rather than translating.
They name her in the credits. But I can't think of a single instance when her name appears in the lyrics - and yes, the only time we break that rule is with a direct Tolkien quote, and I don't think we need to alter it. She is referred to as "Daughter of Thingol" by CelnCur, so Thingol's name gets said but hers doesn't. I have a hypothesis that this may be an artificially set rule by the authors, because Luthien's name sounds a bit awkward in Russian and there are several different versions in the translations. The best-sounding one, IMHO, is the least like the original. But they still picked one of the names for the credits, so maybe this is not the actual reason. In general, I feel like they try to include as few names as possible, and get around this with oblique references.

But back to the question - personally I don't feel that we need to take out Morgoth's mentions, or Angband's mentions, or any of the other extra names we put there that weren't present in the original. I think that it's worth distinguishing that Finrod's story is separate from Beren&Luthien's story, and that there are things outside of it that will continue to exist unresolved. B&L still need to continue their tale: get the Silmaril, face the mightiest of all (twice, with different meanings). I don't think it's wrong in this context to reference their future story without imposing it on the present story, which is Finrod-focused after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
Hate wouldn't actually be too hard; the brothers sing practically all of it as a duet, so I don't need to worry too much about differentiating their voices. But I'm happy to do either of these.
I've sketched Oath and part of Bloodzoning. I think Oath will come first after all. It can also be sung as either a duet or alternating brothers in places. If you want I can start the recruitment for another Feanorian voice too?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
...wearing V2 Galadriel's dress
:-D

(You know, I have nothing against Luthien wearing whatever dress she wants, but when Galadriel is cosplaying Luthien it's just poor planning on the costume design. She could have worn any other colour, and had flowers other than niphredil in her hair, and - oh, whatever.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
I've not seen any particularly great Berens - they all seem to parse him as a Barbarian Hero - but there's a lot of Luthien variety. Do you have any suggestions as to which would look best?
For Beren, yeah - a lot of the plays seem to dress him up as a bandit or something. But some (V1 included) go for the romantic knight figure. By the way, what is his canonical hair colour supposed to be? I can't remember. Actually, speaking of romantic knights, the current Beren reminds me a little of this Ivanhoe. I'll take a look through the Luthiens again, and see if there are any really good ones visually. With my remember-only-what-was-recently-watched bias, I can only recommend a Celegorm and Galadriel (if you ever consider doing a second one... She looks her part and also has an interesting musical interpretation of the Epilogue, I might listen to this again when we get there).



... Captivity is looking so good! ^.^ I just rewatched it again, and again.
By the way - what do the runes on Sauron's throne say?
Also, I might have assumed you know what I'm talking about when you might not, so to clarify just in case - Legate is our Legate. Legate of Amon Lanc.
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

Last edited by Galadriel55; 09-20-2020 at 10:19 AM.
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote