Quote:
Originally Posted by Loslote
Ahhhhh! I see. I was taking 'preindustrial' in an entirely different sense than you intended it - I read the connotations that 'preindustrial' meant 'on the verge of becoming industrial and moving in that direction', whereas you seem to have meant it simply as 'not yet industrial'.
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Fair play, when talking history I tend to generalise. So I used preindustrial in the broadest of forms, also because this is the use I have encountered the most often.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loslote
But even before any social mobility occurs, is Sam not Frodo's friend? I don't know that forcing Ted Sandyman and Sam into social castes by their occupation is entirely appropriate. Their social circles seem to me to be less dictated by their occupations and more by their personalities and interests.
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I agree that maybe it is a stretch trying to apply our social terms on Hobbits, but isn't it fun?
I am not sure about personalities having greater influence than in our society, on the face of it, these things seem quite similar. However I would need to reread the books with this in mind, before making my mind up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc
I agree 100% about everything you have said, Rune, or would have agreed, if there weren't for one explicit quote from Tolkien which says pretty clearly what the status of the gardeners was. I am sure we all know that part.
Faramir and Frodo:
I get the picture that gardener is something a bit special in the Shire. Not that special, for sure, but given the hobbits' love for all that grows etc., maybe the gardeners enjoyed a bit more respect than they would in a similar society in our history. Just as a remark  |
I read that very passage as late as yesterday, and it does not change my view on things. Certain professions will always be held in high regard, even if their social status is low(maybe "social status" isn't the best term, but I hope you understand what I am getting at). You see this in every society... I would argue that soldiers and parking attendants come from much the same social group, but one is honored much more than the other. Beregond for example might be respected, but in no way would he ever be regarded as part of the elite.