[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Lal

But I can totally see why you would question the evil (or maybe violent, as it wasn't necessarily evil to those who thought of Odin, and some still do) side of Odin, as this isn't there in Gandalf, but it is there in his counterpart Sauron.

The "Odinic wanderer" expression is somewhat a tautology (seeing that one of Odin's names was The Wanderer). Sure, we also have the sacrifice of Odin's eye comparable to a certain degree to the making of the One Ring, but the consequences of each act are rather opposite, for the story and the character. And if we do agree that LotR reflects a Norse Light, what kind of Light is that, where men are sacrificed to gods? It looks more like un-light to me

t reminds me of the Pandora's Box tale, another story in which evil did not exist in the world but had the potential to; in both cases it was humans who allowed it to be set free. In Arda, the people have no blame in that sense, it was there already.

I disagree; Imo, evil, as a moral cathegory, existed far before the coming of humans in the greek legendarium; we have Uranus, Chronos and Zeus displaying canibalistic tendencies; many, if not most, of the gods are adulterous, incestuous, and one is bordering cleptomany. As far as Pandora's jar, I would say it contained the _evils_, as in the pains/woes/misfortunes, not the evil as a moral cathegory:

Originally Posted by Work and days, by Hesiod, paragraph 90

For ere this the tribes of men lived on earth remote and free from ills and hard toil and heavy sickness which bring the Fates upon men; for in misery men grow old quickly. But the woman took off the great lid of the jar with her hands and scattered all these and her thought caused sorrow and mischief to men. Only Hope remained there in an unbreakable home within under the rim of the great jar, and did not fly out at the door; for ere that, the lid of the jar stopped her, by the will of Aegis-holding Zeus who gathers the clouds. But the rest, countless plagues, wander amongst men; for earth is full of evils and the sea is full. Of themselves diseases come upon men continually by day and by night, bringing mischief to mortals silently; for wise Zeus took away speech from them. So is there no way to escape the will of Zeus.

I agree with Shippey and feel that Luck is a better term for it, than Providence.

Luck as in favorable, but random, chance? There are various refferences in the works which hint that randomness is somewhat out of the question

Originally Posted by Lal

what incentive would an Elf actually have to learn to do the right thing?

Well, the judgement of Mandos for one thing; if you are bad enough, you may never get a new body. And how many can count on not losing their current one, considering the consumation of their body by their fea (and the marring of Melkor, if there was any around). All in all, the elves are said to be very like the valar, although not as great, so, besides the mentioned "stick", they were naturally good - considering also that none ever served Melkor willingly.