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Lalwendë · 09-11-2006, 10:07 AM

Good points - I think that one of the 'gifts' of mortality was not to be burdened by the weight of the past. It also gave Men the opportunity to actually learn to do the right thing. Contrast this with the Elves who know exactly where they are going in the end, they always know their fate. I'll ask the question - what incentive would an Elf actually have to learn to do the right thing? Men in contrast do not know what will happen after death, so if they have that in mind, then they must try to learn what is the right thing to do. there is also the matter that althoughMen may be leaving the earth behind one day and so why should they care what happens, they will live on thorugh their descendants, and want to leave the world safe for them. Elves on the other hand will carry on no matter what. Kind of a blameless existence.

And Men are created to live 'outside' the Music anyway, i.e. outside fate. So part of the very essence of Men is that they must learn what to do, think what to do, act in the right way, as their destiny is very much in their own hands.

It is sad that the Elves feel they have to dminish and leave Middle-earth for Valinor, but I also think it was the right choice to make, to withdraw from the lives of mortals (Men, Hobbits and Dwarves alike) and to leave them the room to grow and learn, and to be Men! Note that even Faramir is suspicious of what goes on in Lorien, so the divide had grown incredibly wide.

Maybe if we had to say who was optimistic and who was pessimistic in Middle-earth, then its the Elves who are the pessimists, not Men, who are not bound by fate and basically, well, to use a cliche, the world is their oyster! Could we say that its the pessimistic Elves who are the 'Christians', as they have had the revelation of their ultimate fate and of God? And the Men are the Pagans without the 'revelation', unaware of what Eru intends for them (unaware of Eru at all in fact, except Aragorn, who himself does not 'know' as an Elf might, he only 'trusts'), yet optimists to the core? So that knowing your fate takes away your power, whereas not knowing (i.e. for Men) makes anything possible.

09-11-2006, 10:07 AM	#358
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Good points - I think that one of the 'gifts' of mortality was not to be burdened by the weight of the past. It also gave Men the opportunity to actually learn to do the right thing. Contrast this with the Elves who know exactly where they are going in the end, they always know their fate. I'll ask the question - what incentive would an Elf actually have to learn to do the right thing? Men in contrast do not know what will happen after death, so if they have that in mind, then they must try to learn what is the right thing to do. there is also the matter that althoughMen may be leaving the earth behind one day and so why should they care what happens, they will live on thorugh their descendants, and want to leave the world safe for them. Elves on the other hand will carry on no matter what. Kind of a blameless existence. And Men are created to live 'outside' the Music anyway, i.e. outside fate. So part of the very essence of Men is that they must learn what to do, think what to do, act in the right way, as their destiny is very much in their own hands. It is sad that the Elves feel they have to dminish and leave Middle-earth for Valinor, but I also think it was the right choice to make, to withdraw from the lives of mortals (Men, Hobbits and Dwarves alike) and to leave them the room to grow and learn, and to be Men! Note that even Faramir is suspicious of what goes on in Lorien, so the divide had grown incredibly wide. Maybe if we had to say who was optimistic and who was pessimistic in Middle-earth, then its the Elves who are the pessimists, not Men, who are not bound by fate and basically, well, to use a cliche, the world is their oyster! Could we say that its the pessimistic Elves who are the 'Christians', as they have had the revelation of their ultimate fate and of God? And the Men are the Pagans without the 'revelation', unaware of what Eru intends for them (unaware of Eru at all in fact, except Aragorn, who himself does not 'know' as an Elf might, he only 'trusts'), yet optimists to the core? So that knowing your fate takes away your power, whereas not knowing (i.e. for Men) makes anything possible. __________________ Gordon's alive!