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Old 12-05-2006, 02:34 PM   #1
alatar
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
 
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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alatar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.alatar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
LotR3-RotK-Seq15

Now remember, things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is. - The Outlaw Josie Wales


*** Regarding the first scene, The Witch-King’s Hour, please see the additional note at the bottom of the post. ***

The Battle Trolls stalk the soldiers like prey; the orcs find those hiding. Gandalf, signaling for a retreat to the Second Level, calls to “get the women and children out,” and that makes no sense. Was Minas Tirith so in need of soldiers that it had everyone on the line? Or is PJ just making the situation appear even more desperate as we feel more for those not in armor? We quickly switch over to Gothmog, who tells his radioman to let the troops know that the order of the day is to kill all and let Eru sort them out. And to think that, until this moment, I thought that the orcs and Battle Trolls were going to give the civilians bars of chocolate…

Note that the Gate is still manned and soldiers shoot arrows both at those entering that Gate and those having entered. In my book, this means that Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth, and his men still hold the Gate.

The up-close-and-personal shots continue – maybe too much, as we see soldiers and civilians being overrun by the Mordor hordes. By the by, do any of the orcs look like Darth Maul (i.e. members of the Zabrak race) to you?

The carnage piles up. Gandalf, having taken over the role of Mr. Obvious, tells everyone to “Fight for your lives!” It’s just wonderful dialogue, surely written by either Tolkien or Shakespeare. And you almost get the feeling that Gandalf left the thought unfinished, as he meant to say, “…as I’m leaving on the next Eagle out of here. Buh-bye!”

In the mess a small voice is heard calling to Gandalf. It’s Pip, seeking out the White Wizard. Why, I don’t know. Finding Gandalf, Pippin yells and tells of Denethor’s madness, that the Steward intends on burning his son alive. Gandalf, finding a foe that is more his match, and conveniently up on the cushy Seventh Level where nary a Battle Troll can be found, rides off in haste. But wait! Something bars his way. It’s the Witch-King of Angmar, Lord of the Nazgûl, the Captain of Despair, Last to be Drowned in the Flooding of the Ford of Bruinen, mounted upon the Fell Beast. Gandalf shields himself with his Staff, and tells the Witch-King to get himself gone. The Witch-King retorts with more lines from the book. I think that we’re supposed to read between the lines when the Witch-King says, “Do you not know death when you see it, old man?” as we’re to know that wearing a new helm makes you more the man…or undead man…or whatever.

Pippin screams, and Shadowfax backs away from the other stead. The Witch-King draws his Morgul blade, and it catches fire and creates a small vacuum, as you can see it pulling Gandalf hair towards itself. The Witch-King screams/screeches, and POW! breaks Gandalf’s staff, throwing the old wizard and Pip to the ground. Gandalf is slow in rising, and as the Fell Beast growls, Pippin, bravely enough, draws his own sword, but the Fell Beast is just too scary for both he and the Last of the Mearas.

Exit, stage left.

We hear more dire and doom as we see a close up shot of Gandalf prone on the ground. His face ticks a bit, and he, who has already faced death once and returned, now seems to be afraid. The Witch-King makes to strike, but then…

Not a rooster but horns are heard in the distance. Both the wizard and Witch-King ponder this sound, and the Witch-King flies off to see what makes the noise.

Like back in the Shire when Merry threw a bag to distract the Nazgûl, here too the Black Rider is all too eager to follow any noise and leave its prey.

Gothmog must have heard something as well, as he turns from the sack of the city to see. Riders approach on the horizon, and it’s a most welcome sight. Is that the sunrise or sunset that are behind the horse lords? Like in one of Clint Eastwood’s flicks, it’s noted that you should always have an edge. More and more riders appear, and my heart beats faster every time I see this scene. Théoden looks at the besiegers, as do those that follow him. Do they ride to attack, or slink back off and hide while there is still time? To Éowyn and Merry, it’s now no longer all about playing dress up. Éowyn tries to encourage the hobbit, telling him to have courage, “Courage for our friends.” Nice, that.

Gothmog, getting way too much time to prepare for the cavalry assault, gets him orcs in line. Théoden gives a few orders then gives a short speech. He rides down the line, hitting spears with his sword. Note that Bernard Hill is left-handed, but he had to hold the sword in his right to make this shot work. Does that make him dour-handed?

Death! They shout, and it’s scary, but in a good way. The scene goes right to the heart, after so much misery and suffering, it’s about time things turned our way.

And not one Dwarven joke to be seen.

The only thing, small that it is, that this scene misses is Théoden’s golden shield. The riders make for the city, and the orcs try to stop them. Riders fall, but the Rohirrim ride on. Now it’s Gothmog’s turn to show some fear. If only he had a son to burn…

The riders break the orc lines and deliver death wherever they go.

Denethor wants to look his best, now that Théoden has come, and so treats himself to an oil facial (note that it’s light oil – less calories). The Steward asks to be immolated, and his servants obey without much hesitation.

“Well, he did bring that hobbit into his service.”

Before the pyre is lit, Gandalf shows up to crash the BBQ. Denethor still tries to get the party started, but Gandalf, feeling less now that he was destaffed, takes it out on the nearest authority figure. The old wizard, he who put an encouraging hand on Frodo’s shoulder, hits the Steward with a spear, who goes sailing off of the pyre. Pippin the firewalker tries to help Faramir. Using his ent draught-derived strength, the hobbit roles the Steward’s son off of the pyre, which is just what a depressed, oil soaked, arrow stricken, poisoned, almost victim of filicide needs. Faramir even takes a little fire damage. Denethor gets up and wrestles with Pip, and Gandalf, now feeling more like the warrior that he was, goes after the old man. The Wizard spurs Shadowfax at Denethor. The horse knocks the Steward into the fire. Just before he becomes the human torch, Denethor sees that Faramir has opened his eyes.

Great, just great, Denethor thinks. With fever, it’s douse with oil and drop, not ignite. Stupid me.

And nice to see that Shadowfax can kill, as that talent might be useful if the horse were used in, say, a battle.

The flaming Steward gets off of his pyre and runs for the wall. Before the body is even cold (which, in this case, is going to take a little bit longer than usual), Gandalf announces the Steward’s fate. What’s too ludicrous is that Denethor is able to run the entire length of the Silent Street, then all the way out to that part of the City by the White Tree that sticks out like the front of a ship, then dives down to the attackers. It would be more funny if he landed on an orc just next to Gothmog, who would then make some funny remark.

Back on the field, the Rohirrim have the advantage. They begin to rout the orcs. But then, for Sauron, it’s time to start Act 2. You can see Théoden’s jaw drop when he stares out at the approaching oliphaunts, behind which the retreating orcs hide. There might be about 18 of the beasts, but that is way too many. The horns that they use are wonderful, as they are completely different-sounding than those of the Rohirrim.

Théoden’s men appear to be dismayed, but the King forms them up to meet this new challenge. Note that I would have dispersed my riders to make for smaller targets, but that’s me. Théoden charges towards the oliphaunts, and the two groups crash as they meet. The oliphaunts, like walking towers, overmatch the smaller Riders on their horses. Our brief glimpse of hope was just a tease, now gone, and we’re back sliding down to despair. It’s like the sun went behind a cloud.

Each group circles to continue the attack. Surely I’m not the first to see the ‘Battle on Hoth’ – the Empire Strikes Back Star Wars movie where the small snow speeders fight the large AT-ATs – here.

Éomer, finally given a chance to shine, throws a spear into a particularly obnoxious oliphaunt driver, and the driver’s death sets up a collision that takes out two of the beasts. Éowyn takes her attack run at the large walkers, and with Merry at the wheel, she wields two swords and takes out another beast with skillful swordplay. With that, it seems that the tide turns once again. Théoden yells to bring them down, as he and his Riders have gotten over their initial shock and have figured out how to cripple the oliphaunts.

Merry and Éowyn are spilled, and so must fight on their own feet now. Théoden gets in trouble, and Éowyn helps as she can. Her uncle takes notice of this young warrior. Merry goes on his own rampage. Finally, it’s boss time and Éowyn meets Gothmog. They duel, and she takes out his leg. Now he’s gimpy for sure - down, but not out.

So the battle has turned, but it’s far from over. One enemy surely is left unfought. Where is the Witch-King?

***

***

We come full circle.

The Witch-King’s Hour scene, not in the theatrical release, is my ‘signature scene.’ Without its inclusion in the Extended Edition of the RotK DVD, most probably I would never have made it to the Barrow Downs. For that, you can either thank or curse Peter Jackson as seems fitting. Anyway, when I first watched RotK EE DVDs, I was excited as, well, the FotR EE version surpassed the theatrical release, and so I awaited what wonders PJ included in this version. I’d already made my peace with the numerous changes from the text, and all of the silliness that PJ thought would enhance the story.

But then, there it was, THE SCENE. Gandalf got smacked. To me, it was sheer blasphemy and completely unbelievable, as the EE versions were for persons like me, the Tolkien fanatic. What was PJ et al thinking? That night, after watching the remainder of the DVD, I put them away and did not rewatch RotK for a good few months - I was that annoyed. Surely others thought as I did, but one never knows, and so I searched for answers on the internet.

I found them here.

Never before did I post or even read an internet forum, yet here I was, joining up just so that I could make myself heard. Incredibly the moniker ‘alatar’ was still available, and so I took that one, though at the time I figured that I would vent about the Gandalf-Witch King scene and leave it at that. Unless the forum were organizing a large pie-throwing attack on PJ’s house, I didn’t see the attraction. But then I got repped, got into a few ‘arguments’ with Essex, who showed me that there was another side of the movies, got hooked, and after that I started moving around the forum a bit and found that I kinda liked it here.

And so here I will stay a bit.

But anyway, back to the scene at hand. Here are a couple of my posts regarding this scene. Over the years (?) I’ve made my peace with PJ and this scene, but here are my thoughts from back then:


Quote:
Originally Posted by alatar
Throughout the trilogy PJ lessened the role of Gandalf. The Grey Pilgrim starts as the prime motivator behind the forces of good and ends up just some kindly old man who carries a big stick - until *that* exploded.

In FOTR, Gandalf gets the Ring moving towards destruction, escapes from the clutches of the most powerful wizard in Middle Earth and takes on a Balrog. (I painfully accepted the change in regards to whose idea it was to go through Moria, among others).

In TTT, after surviving the Balrog fight and supposedly becoming more powerful (as witnessed when he meets the Three Hunters in Fangorn), he's now an exorcist and an errand rider.

In ROTK, after 'firing' Saruman, Gandalf loses his nerve and has to be reassured about the plan. He can't get the Rohirrim to fight unless there's some watch fire thing message comes from Gondor. Pippin lights the same while Gandalf acts as a distraction.

After using his staff to chase away the Nazgûl, Gandalf's in the back of the formation that greets the three trolls that come knocking at the gates and are dressed to kill. Why didn't he use the staff then?

He loses to the Witch-King, then has to find another stick to whack another king in the head. I assume that *he* spurs Shadowfax at Denethor, which is odd in that he spent some time talking with Frodo about 'needlessly dealing out death,' which could and accidentally did happen. Didn't see a lot of pity there. And I realize that Pippin needed something to do, but what does Gandalf really do in the Houses of the Dead?

After the big battle he is again concerned about the plan, but luckily Aragorn has a good idea. During the battle at the Black Gate he seems (to me) to be just another sword, or captain. He does, however, guide the eagles to Mount Doom.

Seeing what PJ had done to Gandalf, I'm glad that the Scouring of the Shire wasn't filmed. We'd have Gandalf crying after hearing 'sauce' from Ted Sandyman*...

*Yes, I know that that didn't happen, but we're talking PJ's world here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alatar

Then there's that Gandalf guy. See much of him in FOTR. I like him. Wise, kind, a bit more emotional than that Strider guy - I see Gandalf as a real hero as he sacrifices himself to save his friends from that Balrog thing. Thought that he died, but as we never see the body, and he's in the TTT trailer, I'm assured that he's resurrected. Seems to be the kind of guy that you'd want around, as he'd have your back.

He returns in TTT and ROTK. As posted previously, he now is bigger and badder. Those three running guys can't hurt him in Fangorn. He is now more powerful than that other wizard, not only surviving a fireball blast but also breaking that wizard's staff. Gandalf uses his staff to chase away the flying Nazgûl and he's at the Gates when Grond does its work. Still in the thick of things, and leading from the front. It may look dark, but as I see him on the screen, I know that the good guys are far from being done in.

Then, for some reason he loses his staff to the W-K, who I guess is twice bigger and badder as he now wears a helmet. Okay. But Gandalf on the ground looking fearful? This doesn't make sense, as he beat the Balrog and the Wizard and some trolls and assorted orcs. And with the exception of the helmet, isn't this the same W-K that couldn't catch four hobbits in the Shire, and ran away from a sword- and flame-wielding Aragorn? And Gandalf chased him away with some light from the same staff?

And Pippin, who was the least brave of any of the characters in the films, at least makes an attempt to stand up to the W-K (he did attempt to fight five Nazgûl at Weathertop, and so maybe this explains it) and the flying thing. And though he's small, he's at least standing, making him for once 'taller' than Gandalf.

And later the W-K is taken out by a hobbit and Éowyn, both of which, as far as I know, have little fighting experience. So why was Gandalf so afraid? Where was the wise, kind heroic guy that I admired those past ~9 hours?

So that's a tongue-in-cheek way of saying that the scene/character was not internally consistent, opened huge plot holes and I really like Gandalf.

Just think - what if the Witch-King took the extra two seconds needed to slay the helplessly prone Gandalf before the Rohirrim blew their horns (It's well known that Nazgûl, like Pavlov's dogs, just *have* to go and see what's up when they hear horns blowing...)? We'd have BBQed Faramir, meaning that PJ could cut the Houses of Healing scene entirely (Éowyn who?), making room for yet another cameo and/or more Legolas-Gimli slapstick. Aragorn doesn't need the White Wizard in the 'Last Debate' nor at the Black Gate. And just what does Gandalf accomplish in the scene with the Mouth of Sauron? Wouldn't that scene have been better if the Mouth of Sauron came out, talked threateningly awhile, and, in Indiana Jones fashion, Aragorn just takes him out? Then Gimli could say something funny...

Gandalf doesn't do much afterwards anyway in ROTK except for helping Aragorn put his crown on correctly ("Do the feathery-looking things go in the front or the back?") and helping Frodo board the Last Ship ("Hi, I'm Gandalf, your ship's Steward...").

Quote:
Originally Posted by alatar
I think that I could have accepted the staff breaking/prone wizard more easily if Gandalf would have simply 'smiled' just before the horns started blowing. It would have been like saying to the WK that while you're up here, the tides of battle are about to turn.
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