[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Morwen

I'm not suggesting that the appearance of Gil-Estel was "normal" merely that it was thought significant (as it was).

That's true. But what I wanted to say was that it had nothing to do with astrology. It was a message from the Valar, and it did not have anything to do with astrology like that some astrologues in M-E would sit down and say "Eärendil rises in the west and Jupiter is in opposition so that means Morgoth will be overthrown". The question posed was about astrology (and astronomy) and this is not astrology in the way the word is understood here - this was reaction to a special event that happened only once.

I agree that the comparison of the star to an eye is meant to evoke the image of Sauron's Eye. However, Frodo is actually supposed to be observing a bright red star, one that grows ever brighter and such a symbol has been used to signify times of turmoil. There may not be in Middle Earth a practice of observing the movements of the planets and stars to predict events on a personal level. But odd happenings in the heavens may be taken to predict general events and be seen as signs of hope (Gil-Estel) or war (bright red star).

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

A "star" that changes in brightness can only be a planet, and the red color would suggest that it is Mars. That would be my assumption at any rate. Yes, it evokes the Eye, but since Middle-earth's stars are otherwise like ours (with the exception of the mythological elements like Eärendil; our "morning star" is normally the planet Venus), the most logical assumption would be that the light's source is from the same stars and planets.

Originally Posted by Morwen

My thinking was that the red "star" is Mars, hence my link between its bright appearance and impending war. If the HP centaurs hade been present in Rivendell at the time they might have told Frodo "Mars is bright tonight".

Yup, but the question stands like this: can we afford to make such bold assumptions? That was the original question. Frodo simply saw a star and he did not like it, point. I am also inclined to believe it was Mars, but that's another matter. But nothing implies that seeing a red star was taken by the Middle-Eartheans as a sign of war, like the HP centaurs do. The question is not whether centaurs would say that to Frodo, but whether Elves would say that to Frodo.