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Old 07-19-2020, 04:02 PM   #131
Galadriel55
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Location: The realm of forgotten words
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
The price for which my honour to defame
To trample in the dust [to ravage and defile] my last possession.
Don't lie to me that you guessed not my name!
Don't lie to me that your price is excessive!


I think my replacement The price you've set, my honour to defame still fits well, and either 'trample' or 'ravage' works. That last line... is he trying to say 'Don't try and say the price is too high, I will pay it?'. But in that case, the 'price' is the cost of preserving his honour - is that right? As in 'I will suffer through this gladly if it lets me fulfil my oath'?
Yes! That is exactly what he is trying to say! He ends up flipping around the "price", or the directionality of the transaction, or something. Maybe "deal" is a better word for it, because it's bi-directional. He may save himself suffering, but by the same "deal" lose his honour, and that's not a "deal" he'd agree to. Do you think we should rework this stanza to keep it consistent?

Giving it a try here, with just a subtle tweak for starters:

A price to pay or honour to defame,
To trample in the dust my last possession.
Don't lie to me that you guessed not my name!
Don't lie to me that your price seems excessive!


Or,
To stay the price is honour to defame (with the rest as above)

I guess if we were going for both a consistent "price" and the structure, Finrod would have to say "The price for which my honour to preserve / uphold / retain / etc". Then the second line needs to be changed, because it makes no sense. And the third for rhyme - though, if he uses "retain" or "maintain", he can keep "name". And I just had an idea for the second line...

The price for which my honour to retain,
To keep from tarnishing my last possession. [To keep defilement from my last possession? Divert defilement from my...? To safeguard from disgrace...? To keep from blackened stain...?]
Don't lie to me that you guessed not my name!
Don't lie to me that payment seems excessive!



By the way, there is nothing "set" about keeping "last possession", it's not in the lyrics or anything. But that phrase came to me and I really liked it. Finrod lost his love, lost his crown, now all he has is his honour...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
I don't even think 'shameless' is the right word any more. How about 'With cunning arts'? Evoking Saruman's voice (by association with Orthanc 'The Cunning Mind'), and the making of swords (art = craft). I think I like that.
I think "shameless" is good, but I also agree that "with cunning arts" is overall better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
How about 'Who forgave all oaths'?
Do you think it makes sense with the grammar if we put "who" there?
Why did my fair brother go
Into sunset glow,
Who forgave all oaths?


But I'll take it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hui
The second line works nicely, and ties in well with 'Wind' itself. Actually, there's a lot of links between Amarie's song and Galadriel's, which only makes sense!
Yes, I was thinking exactly that last night!

(I guess the two women in his life also had a lot in common. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huinesoron View Post
I will come back to 'Camp' and 'Duet' tomorrow (probably tomorrow), but inspiration has just struck for the 'duty' triplet. How about this:

But this is MY will
This is my will
This is my will!
Duty, not rage.


It dilutes it slightly, but the rest of the verse has been 'we did this because of the Oath'. Now he's saying 'this is what I choose to do - not out of anger, but out of duty'. (I think I stuck 'rage' in for 'revenge' in the Renunciation, so there's precedent.)
And not even a bit Yoda!
[Edit: You kept "revenge" in Renunciation, but this one is a balance between fitting in "revenge" and fitting in "duty", so one has to take the hit... But also, if we take out "revenge", we can change his second line in that verse. I had "hedge", as opposed to other variants, mainly to rhyme with "revenge". It works well with "rage" too though. Argh!]



PS: Realized that in Captivity I used "distant" twice in a row, so changed to "gentle" - or whatever adjective fits best, really. Updated in the post above and on the Doc.
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Last edited by Galadriel55; 07-19-2020 at 09:13 PM. Reason: More versions of the honour/price stanza
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