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Originally Posted by davem
Tolkien makes use of these ideas but in a very 'Christian' way, to the extent that I think it can only be confusing to try & draw ideas from ancient Traditions into our attempt to understand events in Middle earth.Middle earth has its own rules & they are neither wholy Pagan nor entirely Christian. In orthodox Christianity the UnderWorld is a place of eternal damnation in the Mysteries it is a place of Light & liberation through darkness. In Middle earth it is something else....
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Indeed, Arda has its own 'rules' and cannot be equated with the rules of either Christian or Pagan (or any other) traditions as it is its own place, a creation apart. But like with the idea of the Trickster appearing in Tolkien's work, these things do not appear in their entirety, copied wholesale across, and thus are
not the same at all. But like with the Trickster, we can find some elements of these ideas of Hell or the Underworld.
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Originally Posted by davem
In the UnderWorld one would encounter Powers which had to be faced & dangers which had to be passed through. If the initiate was successful he or she would emerge transformed by what they had experienced.
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I think Tolkien
does make use of this idea. When Gandalf falls in Moria he very much passes through the underworld and meets one who lives there, the Balrog. He battles with said being and passes through the danger; he is successful in his initiation. Thus he meets (we think) Eru and is indeed reborn. Gandalf even returns as the White, he is purified by his encounter and journey. This also has links to the Christian idea of resurrection. I don't think it would be wrong to look at what happens to Gandalf in view of both traditions, as it can help us to try and see what the true nature of this rebirth was, and in so doing, help us to understand the nature of Eru.
In some respects, the experiences of Frodo and Sam in Shelob's Lair reflect this on a more earthly level. In particular Sam, who comes through quite literally changed and reborn as a Ringbearer and hero.
The main difference in both these episodes is that in the old traditions, the Underworld is not a place to be feared, it is to be treated with respect, yes, but it is somewhere that the prospective intiate must not fear to go. But even then, thinking about Gandalf in Moria, does he fear to go there? He fears Moria, but he does not fear to confront and challenge the being which dwells therein.