The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - LotR1-FotR-Seq05

***Mister Underhill*** · 11-16-2005, 10:07 PM

Woozy Elijah
I was surprised to see them go this extreme this soon with the whole "the Ring is controlling me!", eyes rolling back bit. To me, it's the least interesting interpretation possible, and going this far with it so early on leaves Elijah without anywhere to go later as the Ring's power waxes in Mordor. davem's excellent comments about the nature of evil in Tolkien in the Sequence 4 thread are still appropriate here: in Jackson's adaptation, the Ring is something that just takes over your mind, it's an overpowering outside force. Frodo never seems to have any real choice in the matter, which wipes out the complex ambiguity and psychological depth of how the Ring works in the books.

Now I know this is a movie here and we're not gonna get all of that complexity and subtlety in, but I would have liked at least a suggestion of it. Ironically, the screenplay is closer to what I would have liked to have seen -- when the Nazgûl is thrown off track by the mushrooms Merry hurls, "Frodo is staring, a look of shock on his face at the ring lying in the palm of his hand."

Bombadil
I can hardly imagine Bombadil in PJ's hands -- he'd have the Master belching loudly at dinner with Goldberry and dribbling mead down his face from a giant dribble-mug, no doubt. Let's face it, Bombadil would be tough to put on film in anyone's hands. Keeping that in mind, and sticking with the theme of abridgement over compression, the decision to cut Bombadil, the Barrow-downs, the Old Forest, and even poor Fatty Bolger is one that I can fully get behind, much as I would have liked to have seen the Barrow-wight his ownself running rampant on the Downs.

I don't have much trouble with the idea that the blades Aragorn gives to the hobbits are of Numenorean descent, and in any case the bit about Merry and the Witch-king and the Numenorean-charmed blade isn't even brought out in the films.

Although Bombadil does add some nice thematic depth to the Ring's story, I wouldn't say it's crucial; or at least I'd say there are a lot of other higher-priority Ring themes which I think might have been fixed before I ever got down the list to old Tom.

Timeline Issues
Here's one that bothers me: the scene about second breakfast (elevenses, luncheon, etc.). As a bit of comic relief I don't mind it, it's when it happens that bugs me, namely, at the end of a travel montage which looks like it lasts many days. Wouldn't they know that Strider doesn't pause every two hours for a meal within, well, two hours of leaving Bree? I'm laughing at that scene at the beginning of the montage; at the end, where it is, I'm sort of annoyed at the lack of attention to detail.

Also, it's worth noting how easily the impression of the passage of time and a lengthy journey is created. This harks back to the problems with the Gandalf travel sequence discussed in the Sequence 3 thread.

Nazgûl
I also dislike the way the Black Rider is so easily thrown off the scent by Merry's tossed pack. I wonder how the placement of the Wood Elves' approach to drive off the Rider, as occurs in the book, would have affected the sequence.

I don't think too much should be made of Nazgûl "blindness" in excusing the way these scenes are staged. Aragorn's explanation of their abilities near Weathertop in Book 1, Chapter 11 makes them out to be pretty capable customers, especially at night, even if they "do not see the world of light as we do".

Besides, the idea of Nazgûl "blindness" is not brought out at all in the films, and non-book audiences have no way of knowing anything about such an idea.

Bree
I agree with those who thought that they laid it on rather thick in Bree. An interesting consequence of making the Pony and all its patrons so threatening is that Strider hardly seems menacing. When Butterbur says his line about how "them Rangers are dangerous folk", I was thinking, Barley, just take a look around the bar! That quiet Ranger in the corner is the least of your worries.

11-16-2005, 10:07 PM	#14
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,743	Woozy Elijah I was surprised to see them go this extreme this soon with the whole "the Ring is controlling me!", eyes rolling back bit. To me, it's the least interesting interpretation possible, and going this far with it so early on leaves Elijah without anywhere to go later as the Ring's power waxes in Mordor. davem's excellent comments about the nature of evil in Tolkien in the Sequence 4 thread are still appropriate here: in Jackson's adaptation, the Ring is something that just takes over your mind, it's an overpowering outside force. Frodo never seems to have any real choice in the matter, which wipes out the complex ambiguity and psychological depth of how the Ring works in the books. Now I know this is a movie here and we're not gonna get all of that complexity and subtlety in, but I would have liked at least a suggestion of it. Ironically, the screenplay is closer to what I would have liked to have seen -- when the Nazgûl is thrown off track by the mushrooms Merry hurls, "Frodo is staring, a look of shock on his face at the ring lying in the palm of his hand." Bombadil I can hardly imagine Bombadil in PJ's hands -- he'd have the Master belching loudly at dinner with Goldberry and dribbling mead down his face from a giant dribble-mug, no doubt. Let's face it, Bombadil would be tough to put on film in anyone's hands. Keeping that in mind, and sticking with the theme of abridgement over compression, the decision to cut Bombadil, the Barrow-downs, the Old Forest, and even poor Fatty Bolger is one that I can fully get behind, much as I would have liked to have seen the Barrow-wight his ownself running rampant on the Downs. I don't have much trouble with the idea that the blades Aragorn gives to the hobbits are of Numenorean descent, and in any case the bit about Merry and the Witch-king and the Numenorean-charmed blade isn't even brought out in the films. Although Bombadil does add some nice thematic depth to the Ring's story, I wouldn't say it's crucial; or at least I'd say there are a lot of other higher-priority Ring themes which I think might have been fixed before I ever got down the list to old Tom. Timeline Issues Here's one that bothers me: the scene about second breakfast (elevenses, luncheon, etc.). As a bit of comic relief I don't mind it, it's when it happens that bugs me, namely, at the end of a travel montage which looks like it lasts many days. Wouldn't they know that Strider doesn't pause every two hours for a meal within, well, two hours of leaving Bree? I'm laughing at that scene at the beginning of the montage; at the end, where it is, I'm sort of annoyed at the lack of attention to detail. Also, it's worth noting how easily the impression of the passage of time and a lengthy journey is created. This harks back to the problems with the Gandalf travel sequence discussed in the Sequence 3 thread. Nazgûl I also dislike the way the Black Rider is so easily thrown off the scent by Merry's tossed pack. I wonder how the placement of the Wood Elves' approach to drive off the Rider, as occurs in the book, would have affected the sequence. I don't think too much should be made of Nazgûl "blindness" in excusing the way these scenes are staged. Aragorn's explanation of their abilities near Weathertop in Book 1, Chapter 11 makes them out to be pretty capable customers, especially at night, even if they "do not see the world of light as we do". Besides, the idea of Nazgûl "blindness" is not brought out at all in the films, and non-book audiences have no way of knowing anything about such an idea. Bree I agree with those who thought that they laid it on rather thick in Bree. An interesting consequence of making the Pony and all its patrons so threatening is that Strider hardly seems menacing. When Butterbur says his line about how "them Rangers are dangerous folk", I was thinking, Barley, just take a look around the bar! That quiet Ranger in the corner is the least of your worries.