Thread: Relative Powers
View Single Post
Old 03-30-2006, 01:01 PM   #92
Formendacil
Dead Serious
 
Formendacil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers.
Posts: 3,309
Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Formendacil is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Send a message via AIM to Formendacil Send a message via MSN to Formendacil
Quote:
Originally Posted by obloquy
That "large hound" defeated the Morgul Lord's master, Sauron. There's no question Sauron was immeasurably superior to the WK even in the Third Age, during which he was greatly reduced from his original non-incarnate form of the First Age before the making of The One Ring. Huan was greater than any non-Maiarin being of the Third Age, period. Read about him again.

And while I admit that Tolkien did go back and forth about Huan's original nature (Maia vs. 'special beast') the Maiarin origin is the most likely considering these points: Huan formulated his own thoughts in his heart (Sil.), rather than parroting those of others or being a sort of puppet to another's will; Huan defeated Sauron, as well as a mega-beast that was saturated with Morgoth's mojo; it is said of Huan that "no wizardry nor spell, neither fang nor venom, nor devil's art nor beast-strength could overthrow [him]."
It seems to me, Obloquy, that you rate Huan's power a little too highly. The passage in the Silmarillion dealing with Huan and Sauron's fight definitely presents Huan as the victor- but the fight ends in a stalemate: Sauron cannot escape without abandoning his body, and so being weakened in a way not dissimilar to the loss of the Ring during the Siege of Barad-dûr. However, here is the text:

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
But no wizardry or spell, neither fang nor venom, nor devil's art nor beast-strength, could overthrow Huan of Valinor; and he took his foe by the throat and pinned him down. Then Sauron shifted shape, from wolf to serpent, and from monster to his own accustomed form; but he could elude the grip of Huan without forsaking his body entirely.
Call me a fool, perhaps, but reading this passage does not suggest to me that Huan was necessarily more powerful than Sauron, but that he succeeded in getting the upper hand in the fight- an upper hand he may well not have had, were Sauron not to have thought to make Huan's "Death by Greatest Wolf" prophecy come true in person. Had Sauron attacked in his own form, or some other form, the outcome might have been very different.

Next, notice that Huan does not- or, I theorize, cannot- kill Sauron. Sauron cannot escape him without grave humiliation, but Huan does not kill him. It is Lúthien, later on in the same paragraph, who threatens him with being stripped of his flesh, and being sent back to Angband a naked spirit, suggesting that this power lies in Lúthien, not Huan.

A final point to note about the fight between Huan and Sauron is that Sauron started out with a disadvantage:

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
Then Sauron sprang upon Lúthien; and she swooned before the menace of the fell spirit in his eyes and the foul vapour of his breath. But even as he came, falling she cast a fold of her dark cloak before his eyes; and he stumbled, for a fleeting drowsiness came upon him. Then Huan sprang.
Huan does not attack Sauron until he has stumbled and been distracted, giving him an edge.

Again, call me a fool if you like, but reading about the fight tells me one thing: it took both Huan and Lúthien to beat Sauron. Before Sauron was cornered by Huan, Lúthien could not threaten him with the division of fëa and hröa- in fact, she fainted at his attack. Likewise, Huan could not defeat Sauron, only deprive him of the victory, and he was aided by Lúthien's cloak, and by Sauron's own choice to attack him in Werewolf form to fulfill the prophecy.

I respectfully submit to the littlemanpoets of the jury that Sauron be placed above Lúthien and Huan.
__________________
I prefer history, true or feigned.
Formendacil is offline   Reply With Quote