Legolas posted:
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find little (nothing?) in The Lord of the Rings that actually requires the reader to step into a different book (Is that the point that was being made?). It seems to me that every conflict emphasized in the book (as a major or minor sequence in the plot) to be explained sufficiently within the book itself.
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To which I would compare with JRRT's letter 153:
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I have, of course, considered all of the points you raise... but any kind of real answer to your more profound queries must at least wait till you have more in hand: Vol III for instance, [italics mine]not too mention the more mythical histories of the Cosmogony, First and Second Ages.
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So while I agree that a 'basic' shall we say, and by that I do not mean necessarily a simplistic, reading of LotR will be in many respects self-contained, to have a deeper understanding of the characters requires the big picture that only the Silm, UT and co. works provide.
There is even one case where we will never know what is behind it all. That of Bilbo and the Lay of Earendil. THe source tects Bilbo was workng from were never written by JRRT so upon what evidence Aragorn finds his efforts out of line [other than in general] we will never know.
But there are many other points [such as the quote of Sam above] that surely you will agree require more than the LotR to properly understand.
In another place in RotK [on the slopes of Orodruin] Sam hearkens back to the telling of the Lay of Beren and Luthien in Imladris. Surely while this does not leave confusion over the plot, you will concede that
not knowing the significance or depth of the reference can not allow us to see the depth of Sam as a character at that moment?
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again Legolas:
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but Tolkien does not depend on this 'outside' knowledge to get his points across within the latter works. He couldn't, even, because these outside stories were not complete (or even close to complete) at the time of the others' publication.
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Two points:
1- 'to get his points across' I agree we do not need the background texts so much. But to fully understand the depth of characterization [ the topic of the thread], I do think in many places, we only get a clear picture from multiple or wider reading.
2-All of the Silmarillion was written prior to the LotR even being begun [see The Lost Road vol. 5 for the nearly complete Pre-LotR version] , though various details and refinements were made, all of the details made mention to in the story [with afore mentioned exception of the Earendil saga which was never completed anywhere except in sketch] werre there. It is true, that much in the way of explanatory details as are found in UT were composed/discovered after, but the primary point of the Silm and LotR being one work in JRRT's mind, and in his hopes to have them published, read and understood together stands.
-L