The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - 'Bilbo's Last Song'

Bêthberry · 09-06-2004, 10:46 AM

Ah, yes. Is the sun sinking or rising?This reminds me of interpretations of that famous painting, The School of Athens. It has Plato and Aristotle in the foreground, their hands pointing in directions which critics have argued over for years, wondering if the direction has anything to do with the relative philosophical position of each philosopher.

It is always tempting to read biographical information into art, yet remember that even Tolkien warned against a very literal or direct reading of life as fiction; there is a relationship, but it is hardly a one-to-one correspondence. I would suggest we remember that the first person is a grammatical choice, an artistic choice, which allows the writer to create a more personal and idiosyncratic perspective or tone than the third person does. Remember what wizardry davem has mentioned on other threads concering grammar.(Realism? Parody? Canonicity?--I shall have to check and return with the right one.)

The question is very much one which is being debated on these other threads--is Middle earth self-referential or does it refer to something outside itself, our known world of 'fact' rather than fiction. How much do we readers wish to make any fictional statement Tolkien made have historical reality? It is, as davem suggests, our Atlantis.

Edit: Got it-- it is on the Parody thread: davem on 'grammaree'

09-06-2004, 10:46 AM	#4
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,977	Ah, yes. Is the sun sinking or rising?This reminds me of interpretations of that famous painting, The School of Athens. It has Plato and Aristotle in the foreground, their hands pointing in directions which critics have argued over for years, wondering if the direction has anything to do with the relative philosophical position of each philosopher. It is always tempting to read biographical information into art, yet remember that even Tolkien warned against a very literal or direct reading of life as fiction; there is a relationship, but it is hardly a one-to-one correspondence. I would suggest we remember that the first person is a grammatical choice, an artistic choice, which allows the writer to create a more personal and idiosyncratic perspective or tone than the third person does. Remember what wizardry davem has mentioned on other threads concering grammar.(Realism? Parody? Canonicity?--I shall have to check and return with the right one.) The question is very much one which is being debated on these other threads--is Middle earth self-referential or does it refer to something outside itself, our known world of 'fact' rather than fiction. How much do we readers wish to make any fictional statement Tolkien made have historical reality? It is, as davem suggests, our Atlantis. Edit: Got it-- it is on the Parody thread: davem on 'grammaree' __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. Last edited by Bêthberry; 09-06-2004 at 10:58 AM.