Thread: Elwe Singollo
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Old 11-03-2008, 09:49 AM   #4
skip spence
shadow of a doubt
 
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skip spence is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.skip spence is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
On the contrary, I've always liked Thingol, perhaps more than he deserves. Maybe I like him because he comes across as a bit of a scoundrel in the Silmarillion (not to mention BoLT) which I always felt was a little bit unjust. He was after all a much better ruler for his people than almost any other Elf-lord, keeping Doriath and it's inhabitants free from harm longer than any other Elven King. Sure, you could argue that he was too passive in the war against Morgoth, but he probably figured the whole thing was the Noldor's making in the first place and that there was little he could do except fence himself in (which was true enough). In this he had a lot of help from Melian but that can't be held against him, can it? He can't have been a complete arse either, bagging himself such a bride. In fact, isn't he described as the greatest of all the Children of Illuvatar as some point?

I'm willing to defend him partially in the treatment of Beren too. Look at it from Thingol's perspective. Here comes this ragged but prideful Man, knowing next to nothing about the world and it's secrets; a Man who've walked the earth just a few fleeting, sorrowful moments and is soon to depart again (unlike Luthien who will remain) yet lays claim to his own daughter with haughty words. And what self-importance Beren shows! Thingol makes a cruel joke really when he says he will give his permission the day Beren presents him with a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown. He has no actual intention of sending Beren out on a quest to reclaim the Jewel as he knows it's preposterous to even try. What he's saying is Never happen!. To me it's Beren who is the real fool here dragging those he loves out on a hopeless quest. If you want to die for your lover don't take innocent people with you. Later Luthien says, 'forget about the Silmaril and we'll live together in the Woods', but oh no, Beren rather drags her into the deepest pits of Angband than retracts his stubborn and hasty promise, one which already has been the death of Finrod Felagund and all his companions. What a selfish bastard he is! And Thingol is made out to be the fool. Jeez!

Thingol in the Silmarillion is tricky though because in the earlier conception of the stories, published in BoLT, he really is a scoundrel, whereas in the later writings, fex what became CoH, he is presented as a very wise and benevolent ruler. This latter more favourable conception of Thingol must have been preferred by Tolkien, but many of the stories concerning him were never rewritten, and still features a rather pathetic Elf-lord. Thingol must therefore have been a big problem for CT when compiling the unified Silmarillion. There are others here that no doubt know much more than I about this though.
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